Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Parge, 10 Oct 2012.
In fairness I think it'd be awesome to have Blogins a sworn (but really friendly) enemy!
Could be a double agent.....blogins will know our trade routes.... ��
He won't, the organisation part of the site will eventually have fully featured forums etc, so all of our secret plans will be made on there!
Presumably this wouldnt stop spies though? We'll obviously have to smother his neither regions with honey and threaten to blow his ships up if he doesnt turn double agent!
You guys could just go with the threat of blowing his ships up bit i'll just get my fetish needs met elsewhere
Im not sure whether im excited by the idea of spies, sleepers & double agents etc. It seems quite interesting, certainly when its larger open and desperate orgs who'll take anyone regardless. Is someone leaking info out, is the info we've heard from our sources legit or are we being played, either now or for a bigger score. Who do/can you trust?
One of the Pagan (an unofficial OCUK org) peeps linked to a RPS story from EVE
Part of that concerns me as it'll undoubtedly transfer to Star Citizen, and theres just something rather mean about it all. At the same time, part of me feels its player stupidity at fault. If you own the equivalent of an Idris and want to solo it, then you have to accept when someone organised with pirate morals spots an opportunity to take advantage.
Heck, if theres 1 person in an Idris in the middle of nowhere, i'd fancy organising a crack at it, the risk/reward even if its an act of piracy, and then doing whatever is required to sell it somewhere shady or pay for the equivalent of a new log-book to change the ships ownership or IDs etc.
If its a bunch of players (ie a relatively fair fight) im not interested cos its not what im into. I guess what im saying is if a granny has a winning lottery ticket i'd bop her over the head for her ticket.
But theres something about it which concerns me, similar to what puts me off playing Day-Z, in that everyone can play their own way, but players who want to meet and help other people, and basically survive the game, are always going to be at a disadvantage to those who are playing their way and kill on sight. Their idea of how to play dominates everyone elses, and you learn to either accept it and persist with short and fairly uneventful lives, you give up playing, or you 'join them' and go bandit too, which only adds to the problem.
It shouldnt be so bad in Star Citizen, as you're always vulnerable in Day-Z, 1 shot can kill and you start again. At least we'd have shields to fend surprise attacks, and moving in numbers helps too, but i cant help but feel i'd rather be playing with like-minded gamers, with NPC pirates, than swarms of gamer pirates picking off people.
But what all of this does bring up things like how org ships are controlled, who has access to fly them and the terms which go along with it. It sounded like in EVE the insurance payout only adds insult, where SC its eventually replaced, but finding out someone fancied doing a job in one of the handy ships and got shot down and we've got to wait a day or 2 for it to be replaced, it'd kinda suck if others had plans to use it properly and better organised.
Anyway, thats enough for almost 4am on a post originally intended just to mention spies probably wouldnt prevent info leakage
Ha ha! I was going to say.... 3.56am! Good work.
Well, the plan is that there will be totally separate sections for black ops etc, that only a Pete and a select few will have access to. There is of course always the risk that someone will run their mouth, or turn double agent - but that's the case in real life as well. Remember too, that in games like DayZ there are no negative consequences to shooting on site, whereas in SC, particularly in UEE controlled space, firing randomly at someone will result in you being destroyed by UEE Police or at minimum, a big bounty on your head.
I don't want SC turning in to EVE, where it seems to be all about big organisations that try their hardest to screw each other over. However, I think there are steps to be taken that can reduce the effect of "spies" or their ilk.
1) No single person has total control over BitSec, both in terms of assets or administration. This means one person can't shut down the defence grid of a capital ship/space station, or run off with all our organisation funds.
2) Keep it small. The big organisations are the ones that will be the target of shenanigans. We have 59 members right now, I don't think we'd make a good target.
However we will need to protect our assets. We're aiming to take all the taxes you guys pay us and buy some kind of space station base (?asteroid) and then plough in to capital ships. In time I'd love for us to have a Panther escort carrier with some smaller vessels (Idris, Javelin) and then large cargo vessels. How we do that is unknown right now.
Most will end up with 2 accounts similar to eve one to be good, one to be bad. I personally will play to kill or be a pirate as would be the technical term. Trading and mining Ect is a needed tool but I don't know anyone who finds it a fun activity.
Insurance will help some but I'd imagine the best weapons and tech is not just instantly replaceable either and that's what you will really lose when you do die the weapons and tech.
In quiet a few games that you lost everything on death the weapons and shields where harder to aquire than the ship itself.
Spying in EVE happens due to the setup of most of the organisations. There was only 2 sides to the last war that happened with every org grouped.
In truth though most people in big orgs are there for those big battles and the leaders know that. Gm of the opposition told them our location so that we could fight.
Dou't a sub 300 player org will register for the bigger orgs to make spying worth while.
Most players will end up in the best solo ship they can fly pretty quickly some may even have brought it already. Once that's aquired other things will follow.
I know people who enjoy mining and trading over PvP combat, so just because you don't know any don't rule it out.
Insurance covers ship hulls and the equipment that comes as stock. Replace the stock weapons with fancy ones and you lose them if you blow up. Weapons and equipment are going to be big deciders in fights, as well as tactics/skill. The best stuff is going to be expensive and rare.
Some of the best players I ever played with were great at trading or mining and were super cash rich in one of the games trading even give xp so they were also high lvl. As he said though he played to win and you don't win in trade. Been good at it give him a leg up on his ships and equipment he used it to dominate.
I absolutely adore the economy and trading parts of these type of games. I'm more of an empire builder & diplomat than a combat pilot.
I think for most of the time I'll likely get involved in very little combat when it's vital for me to get something, or if the corporation or an ally needs the additional pilot to keep up numbers in a fight.
Yeah, im not interested in seeking combat, but im not against being involved in it in order to defend our objectives for a mission or job. Im also more interested in the economy aspects, i love city builder type games, sim city, theme park, prison architect etc and im hoping SC will be like living within that sort of a world, with the various dangers that space will have.
I want to trade, explore, mine, bounty hunt, plenty of things, and really PvP in a competitive stage isnt of interest to me currently (DFM/AC might change that) and combat within the universe doesnt interest me beyond defensive duties.
One thing that concerns me is whether the game gets to the point where you need to be in large organisations, or at least move in large numbers. I dont want to be forced into moving in groups of 20 because the pirates move in similar numbers, and simply going out with 4 of you is pointless unless you stay in high-sec space.
It pretty much comes back to being able to play the game the way you want to play it, or being forced to play in a different way because the game dictates it, and its going to be the weak-moralled characters who dictate that again. Those who'll pick on weaker targets, whether its 2v1 or 20v10, the only way to be relatively safe is by outnumbering the pirates, so if there are large pirate orgs then you have to match that.
Maybe im wrong, aside from bounty hunters and the UEE 'police', are people likely to attack pirates, besides other pirates? I'd assume they'd scan as being enemies of the UEE, or wanted by UEE etc, so assuming you saw say 5 pirates on patrol and there was 10 of you, with sufficient muscle to take them down and no cargo to protect, would you attack them? whether its to collect the bounty, to rid the area of pirates for the safety of others, or simply because they're an easy target and they're the 'enemy'?
I just wonder whether pirates will be pushed to move in larger numbers for their own safety, or whether they'll be able to fly in 3s and pick of solo players without much trouble.
Like i say, its about whether we'll be able to enjoy the game as smaller orgs (mine only has about 8 of us, and we're not actively seeking members unless they're joining our BF clan, unless we give that side of things up) or whether you'd be forced to fly in numbers for safety for many missions (presumably the real money is made leaving safe space, higher risk/reward).
oh, also going back to insurance, we know that hull insurance will eventually deliver a like-for-like replacement of that ship/variant, are you guys saying that the system/upgrades/weapon insurance may not deliver a like-for-like weapon too?
So if i had an Aurora LX fitted with high end upgrades, and lets ignore cargo & cargo insurance.
I would get an LX delivered, but the same high end upgrades might not? Is that because they're rare weapons, you think we'd get the UEC equivalent and have to try and buy new ones, or something else?
I would have assumed a carbon copy of the ship would be delivered, maybe even if it was an Aurora which could be replaced instantly, you'd possibly have to wait for the upgrade to be produced which could involve a long wait, just like waiting for an Idris to come off the factory line.
Is it just guesswork for now, or has this been explained somewhere, as ive only really heard them explain the system with ships/hull and you'll be able to have system & cargo insurance too, and assumed the same principle would apply. It seems like its being implied thats not the case, and the loss of those weapons could be a sizeable blow, or maybe its guesswork too that it could be significant.
It does kinda feel like losing a ship isnt a big deal if it all gets replaced, i certainly wouldnt want to lose everything, but losing nothing when insurance is explained as a trivial expense, seems like its no big deal.
As I understand it, you'll get your base ship back.
So I'd get my Superhornet back but those sweet Gatling guns I put on the wings instead of the Badgers, and the upgraded power plant I put on it would be gone.
Whether upgrading your insurance is an option or not, I have no idea
Hot off the press:-
The LTI and general hull insurance would deliver your SuperHornet, but if you'd purchased upgrade insurance and cargo insurance, then my understanding has been that it'd be the same principle as hulls, you lose a SuperHornet, you get a SH back, not a stock hornet or nothing, like-for-like replacement.
So assuming you had Hull & Upgrade insurance (again, skipping cargo) my understanding would be you'd get a carbon copy of what you'd lost, once it was possible to deliver it to you. So in your case you'd get your Gatlings back too. You wouldnt get the stock badgers though, cos they're either in your hangar or sold.
All assumption from what they've said, which is explaining how hull insurance works, and then mentioning theres also upgrade & cargo insurance.
The only other factor is insurance grading, like you're safe to fly through safe space, but if you go out into low-sec space without coverage for there, dont expect insurance to help.
Insurance type, coverage area & plan length, those are the only things i can think of which have any variation, and that gives you the cost for it. Timeframe for replacement isnt a factor for insurance, but for delivery.
Thanks for the link IanW. Will watch that in bed tonight
At the moment they have only confirmed hull and cargo insurance, nothing for weapons or equipment. I assume it's coming, but it's a minor point really that I'm sure will be sorted in the PU.
Upgrade insurance has been covered, just googled for it and found this:
Under 'Will this Insurance cost a lot?'
So there are 3 levels, the most common (incl LTI) being the hull insurance, then insurance for any modifications made to that ship, and also one for loss from cargo.
Ah, but there was a 10ftc aaaages ago that made it a bit murkier. Not all upgrades will be covered, but they haven't decided what Until the mechanism appears in-game, it's going to be somewhat of a guessing game. Some cargo also won't be covered (but this is more predictable, so illegal drugs and stuff?)
EDIT: The 10ftc was before that Insurance FAQ was updated, so it might be that they've altered things. Keeping track is hard!
Yeah, even that FAQ was from Nov 2012 iirc so its hard to know one way or the other.
That said, im sure its been covered in RSI videos in questions. Ive watched WMH 20-28, and 40+, and i watched them in a weird order (ie ep50 when i got into SC, then went back to ep40 and caught up a bunch, then when they were done i went back to 20 and started from there - so my info timeline is completely screwed up ) so its hard to tell but im sure that either in WMH or 10FTC they've mentioned the 3 variations of insurance but the example of how it works always comes back to hull insurance, and mentioned in passing theres also upgrades & cargo.
Im tempted to try and go through it all again, in the correct order perhaps, just watching the Q&A stuff, and skipping all the chit chat.
Just thinking about watching the older eps has me cringing at the thought of having to put up with all the 1-2min videos to ask a question which would take 10sec to ask, but has to come with bad acting and end up asking questions they've already answered, purely so they can get their pathetic faces on the show. Thank god they've stopped doing those!! 9/10 were just plain annoying.
Ugh, the latest WMH had a fan video in it. So. Bad.
Also, BitSec just hit 60 members!
I'm thinking of sending a box of something to the guys at Foundry42 (as the Austin office seem to get all the nice things). Now, I thought it would be awesome to send them something from BitSec as a whole - is anybody interested?
I'm also thinking of getting the BitSec logo made up in to a cloth patch. Any interest?
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