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Windows Star Citizen

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Parge, 10 Oct 2012.

  1. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    That seems to be the case in general: lots of people who have not put any money down being vocally offended on behalf of the people who have (who for the most part are just waiting for the game and playing other stuff in the meantime).
     
  2. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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  3. Weekly_Estimate

    Weekly_Estimate Gives credit where its due

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    [​IMG]

    Anyone taken any pretty pics? let's see them ships!
     
  4. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    ATTENTION!

    As of 7am today (Friday Dec 21st), Star Citizen Alpha 3.4.0 is LIVE!

    Patch notes

    EDIT:- There may well be a 3.4.1 later today or over the weekend.

     
    Last edited: 21 Dec 2018
  5. bawjaws

    bawjaws Well-Known Member

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  6. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Specifically, they need $50m more from private finance for marketing in order to raise more funds through pre-orders. Amaze.
     
  7. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    As predicted, a 3.4.1 PTU was released approx 3 hours ago.
     
  8. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    If I read their financials right, for the last three-ish years they've never had more than enough money to continue operating for the next two or three months at a time. I can see why that would motivate them to keep the hype train going as much as possible.
     
  9. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Which is ridiculous, given how much cash they've raised - and continue to raise: they've pulled in $36 million a year for the past three years based on nothing more than promises, flashy videos, and a buggy and very early alpha build of one-half of the original promise. If they can't survive on that, things are worse than I thought.
     
  10. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.
    Witcher 3 cost around $80 million to make and that was in low wage Poland, so Star Citizen which is several times more ambitious than a regular AAA game not doing too well with "only" ~$200 million is no surprise at all.
     
  11. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    GTA5 was made for $265 million including marketing, if we're doing apples-to-apples.

    My problem here is this: if they're running out of runway with $36 million coming in every year... how do they hope to sustain that between now and 2020/2021 when (if) it finally launches? The fact the latest funding has been earmarked exclusively for marketing suggests that they're finally reaching the bottom of the backers deep in the land of the sunken cost fallacy barrel and need new customers rather than trying to milk their existing customer base for yet more cash to keep the lights on - and I think they're going to struggle to find them. If I'm right, it'll all come crashing down late 2019 and everyone goes home empty-handed.
     
    VipersGratitude likes this.
  12. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    They probably won't be able to sustain it, the only out I see for them is scale back the ambition... (because the ambition was always far beyond the budget, even before they embarked on a frivolous money wasting mission with bs like celebrity voice actors) of course that is unlikely to happen so your prediction of it ending in crash and burn will still come to pass.
     
  13. N17 dizzi

    N17 dizzi Well-Known Member

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    Meh. Rockstar games (the contemporaneously 3rd biggest studio worldwide?) releasing their 5th iteration of a celebrated game built on the back of the GTA IV engine, and it still cost $285m? Apples-to-apples, really? Same as comparing CIG with cd projekt red. To me what CIG are attempting, and their funding methodology, stands firmly on its own (and perhaps deserves different evaluative criteria).

    On the one hand it is good to see they have been spending the money earned on development and not, as has been claimed by some, siphoned out to fund lavish lifestyles or small islands. On the other, this new investment for marketing shows they are concerned about their backer's goodwill, patience, and willingness to keep digging deep on nonexistent spaceships for a game that equally doesn't exist.

    Yes we can speculate. Again, certain people have claimed they have been "finished" for the last 4 years, and maybe those predictions have been close to being true, maybe not. Arguably, attracting new backers could keep them going *as is*, or help them earn more.

    My hope is this situation finally convinces them to pull their finger out and stop with this infernal passion project philosophy. Start treating it like a publisher would. Goodwill time is long since gone - draw firm lines on what is feasible and achievable and the release a ****ing game before this digital money pit is abandoned entirely.
     
  14. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    So... You're saying a bigger studio is cheaper to run than a smaller studio?

    EDIT: "Apples to apples" was in terms of a not-based-in-cheap-Poland studio versus a not-based-in-cheap-Poland studio. In terms of directly comparing Rockstar with CIG/RSI:

    Rockstar's bigger (which means CIG/RSI's budget should stretch further)
    Rockstar had an existing game engine (quicker to develop)
    Rockstar developed GTA5 in five years (RSI/CIG have been working for six and counting, and it'll have been eight by the time SQ42's beta comes out)
    Rockstar didn't promise never-before-seen tech and massive feature bloat (whereas RSI/CIG... well, yeah.)

    So, given a roughly-equal budget, CIG/RSI could stretch it further because they're smaller - but not so much that they can turn what was a five-year budget for a city-scale game with so-so tech into an eight-year-plus budget for a universe-scale MMO game with never-before-seen tech on top of a AAA single-player title with never-before-seen tech and an all-star voice/mocap cast.

    I'm not saying $200 million plus marketing is enough to make SC/SQ42 therefore Roberts shouldn't be passing out the collection plate begging for more; I'm very specifically saying that $200 million is not enough to make SC/SQ42, and I don't think Roberts is going to find the other $200 million plus that he'd need to deliver on his vision - so either SC/SQ42 get scaled down to GTA5 levels, or they don't happen at all.

    I agree completely, and that tells me I didn't make my point very clear: $200m (plus marketing) gets you a GTA5. It doesn't get you a Star Citizen as promised, which CIG/RSI appear to have discovered. It certainly doesn't get you a Star Citizen *and* a Squadron 42. There's no way they can deliver both, or even either, without considerably more cash or a considerable scale-back on Roberts' increasingly unfocused vision.

    Remember when Roberts needed a mere $10m to get it finished by 2014?
     
    Last edited: 22 Dec 2018
  15. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't really matter if you pick Witcher 3, GTA 5 or some other AAA game... the point with both is that CIG "only" has a "normal" AAA budget while attempting to produce something far more ambitious.
     
  16. Guest-56605

    Guest-56605 Guest

    Unless Roberts has a rocking horse that sh*ts gold bullion it ain't gonna happen, after all, has anyone ever seen a rocking horse sh*t (let alone one with gold producing abilities)?
     
  17. N17 dizzi

    N17 dizzi Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I am simply saying it is not apples-to-apples. For example, Rockstar have other IP they work on at the same time; RDR2 has been the pipeline for 8 years alongside GTA V. GTA V was not constructed from scratch out an engine not fit for purpose (ala SC/SQ42 and Cryengine). Indeed, it was built from a very similar engine derived from it's predecessor; that itself was derived from GTA SA. Their development costs were not factored in to the $265m. Moreover, looking at the broad similarities of RDR2, I'd say they use a derivative engine for that, too. They are clearly sharing assets all over the place. CIG were starting from scratch.

    In other words the comparison is somewhat moot. What CIG are attempting, the type of games they are *trying* to build are different than an iterative franchise which, while continual improvements are obvious, has not redefined a genre since perhaps the original GTA III on PS2. That is what CIG and CR are now, post 2012 kickstarter, claiming to be trying to do: redefining the PC space game (SC) and immersive, character driven gameplay (SQ42), regardless of whether it works out or not; and I am quite sceptical at this point. The companies relative scale and what each have had to do i.e. CIG building their company, workforce, infrastructure etc, while producing their respective games, is very different.

    Edit: I see your explanation of apples-to-apples now. Understood.
     
  18. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    From the backer email (and presumably on a blog post too somewhere): the separate VC fundraise for marketing was because one of the crowdfunding pledges was to use the funds from crowdfunding for development only, not marketing.
     
  19. Weekly_Estimate

    Weekly_Estimate Gives credit where its due

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    Was doing some hunting and ran into this big guy, offloaded absolutely everything I had and not a damn thing got past the shield… (Tis a Hammerhead) So much bigger I actually landed on top of it at one point and even the Hammerhead is tiny compared to some other ships!


    [​IMG]
     
  20. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    You'll probably see a lot of Hammerheads over Xmas, it's the subscriber's "Ship of the month".
    (Subscribers get a free ship (or several) for each month, January's will be all 4 variants of Freelancer)
     

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