Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 13 Apr 2011.
Valve was waiting for DNF before developing Episode 3\HL3.
Besides, we had from Valve, 200+ patches for TF2, L4D and L4D2.
How many years did they reiterate on TF2? 7, 8? Because that's the way I see Ep 3. As far as I know Valve has a dedicated steam team, a dedicated HL team, a dedicated TF2 team etc. Sure members get swapped around when something major is about to get launched to finish it up on time/final polish, but I think their output has been fine. If portal 2 as good and as long as I expect it to be then that could easily make up for the lack of HL. That's 3.5 years for a full length single player and coop, it took them 5 years to do HL2, and since it's the same universe it could have been most of the HL team working on this.
Personally i think they've been waiting for a Portal 2 release before Episode 3 considering they look like there going to be strongly linked together.
The only way Steam holds Valve back is if the whole network has a heart attack for one game's updates or initial sales, and since TF2 it's only been third party titles that have had this problem. (Cheap UT3, GTA4, etc).
I'm happy to wait for games to be right from Valve, Stardock might as well make the same points about EA or any other publisher with an online arm.
Plus, a lot of people remarked that getting Left 4 Dead 2 out of the door too quickly after the first was an equal hassle to the long waits for other games. Ironically I haven't finished Portal yet (6 to go) so I'll be waiting even longer before I pick it up.
Another way to look at Steam is this.
Valve takes a small cut off of every game sold on Steam, with hundreds of developers using the system and millions of games being purchased daily, they have a set minimum revenue steam to operate under to remain solvent. This enables them to take their time to design their games since unlike some developers like EA titles, there is no push to go from one product to the same repackaged product in the next year just so that everyone doesn't get fired. This extra time has the added benefit that Valve is more willing than most companies to continue expansions to their existing titles as seen in TF2 where I imagine that the majority of the development time has now been spent creating free DLCs for the game rather than the original game itself.
BTW Stardock, what is your product listing?
Oh yeah. 3 Galactic Civilizations, 2 Sins of a Solar Empire, Demigod, and a competing project to Steam.... totally unbiased.
My thoughts exactly! +rep
Sound like a sound logic at first, but I belive there are many other reasons for this. In addition, except for last year, there has been a release of I would say a major game every year since HL2:ep1. Not to mention all the updates. I really hope that end of this year/early next year will bring the new HL and it will be as long as ep1 + ep2
Stardock WAS an amazing company, I withdraw my judgement on them though as of the Gamestop aqcuisition. Looks like other than SoaSE's next installment I'll be buying my "classics" via GoG.com and Steam.
It's not that I haven anything against Steam, they make a few hundred off me every year... I just prefered to support systems like GoG and Impulse that have little to no DRM and don't require me to be online to register a new title.
I have to say I disagree with the guy, everything that Valve have said about their working practices suggest he is inaccurate. I remember reading an interview around Orange Box time that their developers get put on a project, but can also work on what they want within the business, and can spend time working on different projects, so those who are creating a game are truly passionate about it.
I think what is holding back Valve if anything is their perfectionist streak and tendency to iterate multiple times on what they are working on, as well as people working on different projects, be that TF2 DLC (HATSFTW), L4D (which as I understand it when Valve took in the company producing it needed a lot of work) L4D2, Portal 2 and various other games.
Remember the HL2 hack/leak? I seem to remember a lot of what that game was they threw away and started from scratch. There were screenshots I saw of the hacked HL2 which contained enemies which never made the final cut (blue tentacle monster).
Also remember the early TF2 information and screenshots, where it was a more “hardcore” military style game, then they went silent for a few years and hit us with something we totally didn't expect with a fresh new look and style.
I wouldn't be surprised that they started HL2 episode 3, weren't happy with it, scrapped it a few times or decided Source couldn't do what they wanted, so they are re-engineering it or developing their second generation engine. I desperately want Episode 3, or HL3, but I'm happy waiting because I know when it comes it'll be :awesome: and with Valves track record something we're not expecting.
Although Stardock is substantially smaller so what he is saying makes sense for them I really doubt that with Valves resources they're using game designers and engine coders to work on community & store projects, especially at the expense of their biggest property.
I wish companies would stick to talking about their own stuff instead of pointless speculation about other peoples.
The guy needs to QQ harder.
I'd rather wait ten years for HL3 then Ten months for Call of Duty: Bland Warfare.
Sounds to me like Stardock is trying to justify selling out to a company that "hates" PC gamers (because we don't bring in enough money to cater to in their stores )
Just went into a gamestop the other day, not a single PC game in the entire store, and even the Pre-order posters for Portal 2 and DNF didn't even have a PC logo on the front It's like they don't think we exist.....
So Brad Wardell is bitching and whining from his soapbox again? Surprise, surprise.
I used to think Stardock was a cool company, then Brad Wardell started opening his mouth.
I don't see how this part of his claim makes any sense. The majority of staff working on HL2 Ep3 are not going to be shifted from game development to development of the Steam application or its backend services, as Wardell seems to be claiming here.
As others have said, it's more likely that the profitability of Steam is what allows Valve to stay afloat while working at their own valve-time pace.
My own stance on the Ep3 delay is one of annoyance though. I was sold on the episodic approach when they first announced it, mainly because HL2 had ended on such a vicious cliffhanger that I wanted to know what was coming next.
As things stand currently, I'd prefer if they had just worked for 3-5 years on HL3 instead; something that would be as groundbreaking as HL2 was. Right now, my anticipation of Ep3 is waning and maintained only by my interest in the plot and a vague hope that they're going to do something really special with it after all this time.
@Volund hit the nail on the head.
The above is just wishful thinking, Half life 2 was released in 2004. That is almost seven years ago! The HL2 engine or source engine is extremely outdated by now. Episode 2 came in 2007, in the meantime four years have past since that release without any episode3 or HL3 related news from Valve.
Saying that Episode 3 or HL3 is going to be 'awesome' is heavily overrated. Not even counting the fact that most Half life players are now in their late 20's or 30's. I am almost 40, and last time I played any valve game was 4 years ago. Just like you i'm waiting for 7 years now, but by now I there is a bigger chance that Gabe would die of a heart attack first. Or that we are to old for this ****...
That's exactly what I was thinking
Look at what Valve pumps out:
Left 4 Dead series
Team Fortress 2
Counter Strike Source
Day of Defeat Source
and Steam. Which is due another over-haul very soon ...
That sub game keeps getting mentioned, I'd be surprised if that didn't make an appearance at some point in the future. Ricochet might be back as well ...
The ARGs over the past years ...
Their relationship with indie developers ...
Their outlook on the future of gaming ...
Valve and Stardock are in two entirely different leagues.
You spelt parallels wrong in the article. First paragraph.
This would only be true if Valve was a publically held company. As long as they are privately held, they don't have stock owners breathing down their necks to maximize Steam profits above all else.
Valve isn't that big of a company, and like was said earlier some of their staff moves between projects in order to meet deadlines. You can't say they've sat on their ass when you have had 2 L4D games and Portal 2 since the Orange Box, along with a ton of free updates.
Separate names with a comma.