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Portable Surface 2 Pro / Yoga 2 Pro? Which do you like more?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by timmehtimmeh, 28 Sep 2013.

  1. timmehtimmeh

    timmehtimmeh Member

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    Hello, I have been somewhat eyeballing up these 2 devices since their launches at IFA and New York but I can't quite decide which I prefer and whether I even need (want) one.

    I keep skipping back and forward over the specifications and preview videos however the more I look, the more I figure I don't know which is the better device. I presume its a bit of horses for courses but I am planning on using it in bed and in front of the TV in the lounge so I don't always have to use the main machine up in the study upstairs.

    If it were your money... and you did in fact want some kind of tablet/windows ultra book running windows 8.1 - which would you buy? and why? And please by all means - recommend something else other than these 2.
     
  2. timmehtimmeh

    timmehtimmeh Member

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  3. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Well it's hard to know without reviews... Personally, I am getting the Surface Pro 2, because battery life is good (plus their will be the PowerCover coming early 2014, in the case I need more battery life)


    Now let's get over one potential issue, which might, perhaps, play with your decision:
    Surface 2 Pro has a smaller screen. If you want to enjoy full 1080p on it that means you'll need to change the default DPI from 150% to 100% (naturally). So things will be small. I am mentioning this, because some people, even with glasses have trouble seeing. For me, no problem! I went to a computer store that had the Surface Pro 1, and gave that a try. I could perfectly read everything. had trouble hitting the close button on the a folder on the desktop mode, but that is why you have the pen.

    I know some people put the DPI setting at 125% as a compromise between the 2 for comfortable viewing... things to try.

    If you are comfortable with 100%, or 125% DPI, then you'll have no problem with it.

    Ok that aside, the Surface Pro 2 has a digitize pen, while the Yoga Pro 2 does not (if I am not mistaken)
    So, do you need digitize pen? Personally, I need it for school. I do math, diagrams, and graph. Plus I enjoy the portability.

    If you don't, and don't mind or prefer the larger size, the Yoga 2 Pro would seam a good choice, especially if it's cheaper, and has good reviews.
     
  4. timmehtimmeh

    timmehtimmeh Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I too am very much thinking about getting a surface 2 pro. However the 10 inch factor might be a bit of a small move for me. For work I use a 13.3 inch display and at home I use the 2x30" dells.

    I was thinking I might even chop up the old system and just keep 1 monitor with a Surface 2 dock when it arrives in 2014. I am just nervous going from a 2700k system to a 4200U. Wondering what performance bump down I would notice.

    I am also trying to figure out by what magnitude a 4200u would be worse than a 2700k at 4.5Ghz.
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2013
  5. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    I have the Yogabook V1 and I absolutely love it. It works brilliantly as both a laptop and a tablet.
     
  6. fdbh96

    fdbh96 New Member

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    Obviously it will be slightly slower but I find the main thing I miss in other pc's is an ssd. Since the surface has pne I should't think its too bad. However, I just think the screen is far too small to do anything useful on it.

    If you like the idea of a digitizer pen then the thinkpad yoga comes with one.

    Depending on how big your budget is, theres the sony duo 13 which gives you a bit more screen space and a bit more performance if you need it, plus a digitizer pen.
     
  7. timmehtimmeh

    timmehtimmeh Member

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    Gpood point fdbh96 about the screen size I am concerned about how I will like using a 10" display, any idea if the surface pro 2 dock that comes out will support 2 or 1 external monitor? I am wondering if I would keep my 2 dells or get rid of one were I to do this change.

    According to the benchies, this 4200u is about 1/3 pc mark of the 2700k. I wonder what impact that would actually have on daily computing. I dont think I use anywhere near to much of the cpu performance in this system for the jobs I do.

    I dont think I ever actaully do video conversions.
     
  8. Jehla

    Jehla Member

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    I read we should also expect a new 11" yoga (x86) at some point. Not much help if your concerned about screen size though.

    I'm also picking between a yoga or surface pro2 as my mobile computer, still trying to decide if I should get 4 or 8 Gbs or RAM.
     
  9. fdbh96

    fdbh96 New Member

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    I would say if you are concerned about performance then I would recommend trying a laptop out with the i5 in. Its going to feel slower than your i7 obviously but I think a ssd will keep up ok.

    To answer your question at the start I would recommend the yoga as I imagine the surface will be a bit restrictive on screen size and might bog down when you start plugging external monitors in, especially if they are 2560x1600.
     
  10. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    The dock has only 1 mini-DisplayPort out. It just redirect the one of the tablet, as it is covered. It can support up to 2 display (the tablet itself, and an extra display). It is unknown if it support daisy chaining. But if the Haswell HD 4400 support it, the device should as well. (I don't know if it does).


    Laptop CPUs are ALWAYS slower than desktop CPU's.
    Haswell, is the first CPU, that is ultra voltage, and is not DRASTICALLY slower than the non-ultra voltage version of the mobile version CPU, but relatively on par. Microsoft claim that the Surface Pro 2 is faster than 95% of all laptops on the market right now.

    Also, your 2700K is a Quad Core.
    Non-Gaming CPU's on laptop space is still Dual Core. Like I said, always behind desktop.
    The model that the Surface Pro 2 has, is a Dual Core with Hyper Threading, so at least HT helps.
    If you look at Wikipedia, The model that the Surface Pro 2 select for it's CPU, is the fastest of the series that they could picked, in the lower than Ivy Bridge model (a no choice, as else the Surface Pro 2 would have ended up with only a slight increase in battery life)
     
  11. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    For the small screen, as I mentioned, go to the computer retail store, and check the Surface Pro 1, it's the same screen resolution, and size. If you like it, then you'll have no problem.
    1080p is 1080p... your work space is the same (assuming the DPI setting are identical on the two monitors).

    I don't see one: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/yoga/yoga-2-pro/

    Hmm, but the screen is always exposed, and I saw it at the store.. the hinge is super flimsy, and it faces the same issues as all the entry level Sony laptop, where the plastic is of horrible quality. I saw it many stores, including Sony own store, and all have cracked plastic where the clock hinge is this is very bad sign, is means that it will chip off, and then the screen will no longer lock at the keyboard position. Assuming it got heavy abused, hence the crack plastic, it is more expensive than the Surface Pro 2
     
  12. fdbh96

    fdbh96 New Member

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    While you do technically get the same workspace on a 10" 1080p screen, it doesn't feel the same and its going to strain your eyes quite a lot if you have it on the 100% DPI setting. I haven't actually tried it so I could change my mind but I just think 10" is a bit too small for productivity.

    Its the thinkpad yoga that has the digitizer pen support, while I don't believe is up on the us site yet but is on our uk site.

    http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/yoga-series/yoga/

    I also thought the duo looked a bit flimsy on the website but I thought it was worth suggesting as a possible alternative.

    I think the surface would be a very good buy but I would avoid the 64GB model as it only has 4GB of ram while probably can't be upgraded and windows 8 will leave not much room on a 64GB drive for other stuff.

    Also it doesn't come with a keyboard which is £100 in top of that, whereas with the yoga you get a great lenovo keyboard, especially in the thinkpad model.

    Edit: Just remembered the XPS 12 aswell, which has been getting some good reviews.
     
    Last edited: 30 Sep 2013
  13. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Ohh the Yoga is indeed interesting.. I need to find out more on it, including it's specs.
    Of course we will see about price too. It's shame it apparently only has 5.3h of battery life :/
    I guess that's it's downside.

    Yea, Pro 64GB should not be in anyone shopping list.
    128GB SSD 4GB of RAM, should be the minimum.
    But I think 256GB SSD 8GB RAM is the best choice, although I would have liked, a 128GB with 8GB of RAM, to be really honest. As I am fine with 120GB with my current laptop, and the Surface Pro 2 has a MicroSD card for extending storage, and 200GB of SkyDrive.

    I agree, a keyboard should be included, especially for the 256GB SSD 8GB which is a full 300$ premium over the 128GB SSD 4GB of RAM.

    8GB of RAM is cheap, even the low voltages ones... and if they wanted, they could simply turn off the RAM modules not being in used, something they can do, as the chips are soldered on, and doesn't need to follow from standard which limits such functionality.

    256GB SSD is on mSATA, and is indeed expensive, 200$ the cheapest I found. While one can say, 200$ + 8GB (let's say, ultra voltage cost more, so, 80$?!) = 280$, and that's fine, Microsoft makes 20$ bonus, wtv, let them have their fun. But where is the reduction of the 128GB SSD from it.

    So ya, to really be a good deal, the 256GB 8GB of RAM should comes with a keyboard as bundles.

    That is what kinda makes it hard for me to swallow, and that is why I want a 128GB + 8GB of RAM model. But oh well.
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2013
  14. Jehla

    Jehla Member

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    Where will the effect of cheaping out on the ram be felt? £240 is a lot of money if I'm not going to make use of the ram.
     
  15. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Yea it's a bit tricky, and now most ultrabooks have their RAM soldered on. You think it's to save space, but the mSATA SSD card and wireless card, connector are the same height as the RAM modules, so it could have been done. OEMs make it on purpose.
    It's forcing a hardware limitation that you can't upgrade (let alone try and open the hardware in question), to force you an upgrade.

    For example, The Surface Pro and Pro 2, the mSATA SSD, is right under the kick-stand, if I am not mistaken. They could have added a panel, and so wide, the RAM could have been put next to it.
    Or you know what, 3 or 4 screws could have been added behind the kick-stand, where when you remove them, and lift and slide upwards the back cover, you have full access of the tablet internal. They COULD have done it. But nope... super glued shut. Sending the unit for "repair" (getting a refurbished, no data transfer), out of warranty, cost 470$, 'cause Microsoft can't really properly repair it. themselves. You definitely want to take the 2-3 years warranty to avoid the 470$ price tag (+ shipping).
    http://crashctrl.com/2013/02/surfaceprooutofwarrantyrepaircosts/

    But all this is not new. All tablets are the same, and even some ultrabooks as well.
    And those that can be opened, required special screw driver to remove.


    That aside.
    What I would suggest you do, is estimate the number of years you'll keep the device that you want? 3 years? 5 years?
    Then, when you use your desktop or laptop, when you do what you normally do with the system, pop open the Task Manager and check the RAM usage.
    For me, I noticed that consume, on my laptop, when I work, 3GB of RAM. i was a bit surprised, as my system has 4GB, and recall perfectly that 5 years ago, "4GB was more then plenty". But yes, as programs I use get more fancy, and comes with more features, it also consume more system resources (CPU power and RAM). On my desktop, I even reach ~3.5GB peek, and that's not with any game running. Just work. (desktop has 6GB of RAM).

    So clearly if I get 4GB of RAM, for me, after 2-3 years, I would most likely need more, if I want to stay perfectly comfortable, and not worry about closing thing. So 8GB is what I need.

    And this is what bugs me now. I don't need 250GB SSD, as I am not going t put PC games on it. My laptop, I have upgraded a few years ago, with a 120GB SSD, and I am perfectly fine. Plus, like I said, the Surface Pro 2 has a MicroSD card slot, so I can put a 64GB chip inside, if I ever need extra storage for data. But the RAM I need.

    I think Microsoft knew this. Else, the 64GB model would have 4GB of RAM, a combination that makes sense. Budget option, not a heavy user, probably would not need more than 4GB of RAM, then the 128GB+ options have 8GB of RAM.

    This is the standard OEM tactic. It never worked well with us for ages, as we usually just get the RAM, or HDD ourself, and do the upgrade, and still manage the save money. but I guess, in this day of age, we have our hand tied. :/
     
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  16. fdbh96

    fdbh96 New Member

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    If I was spending near enough £1000 on a pc I probably wouldn't get 4GB of RAM as thats what you get as standard on a £300 pc now.

    I don't know if this is a tech myth or not, but Windows will take advantage of more RAM if you have it, so an a 4GB pc it may use 1.5GB idle but on an 8GB system might use 2GB so it loads more stuff into memory in the background improving performance.

    My favourite at the moment looks like the new Haswell XPS 12 as the laptop to tablet conversion looks a lot simpler and apparently the hinge is a lot stronger than it looks.
     
  17. Jehla

    Jehla Member

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    Would you include graphics card? I loaded up a game of civ5, my system was at 2.6GB and my graphics card was at 1.514GB (of 3GB).

    I'll never be running many desktop applications so the odd game of Civ is the worse it will have to cope with.

    If it is, it's a common one :)
     
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  18. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Actually you raise a point that I have completely forget... Intel integrated GPU uses the system RAM. My laptop uses a dedicated GPU with dedicated memory (256MB) (Nvidia Quadro NVS 160M), so yea, I would definitely need 6GB model. Thanks for the reminder. +rep.
     
  19. timmehtimmeh

    timmehtimmeh Member

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    The more I read here the more I think the Yoga2pro is the way forward. I wonder how much the cost will be when compared to the surface pricings.

    That point about it being glued shut is something I am most unhappy about. It would be nice were I to be able to do something with it a year down the line other than return the whole thing.

    Also, being able to upgrade the msata would be nice.
     
  20. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    I have a surface pro 2 256gb on pre order. Theres nothing else out there that ive seen that merits looking at. And im not pro Microsoft or anything of that nature, Own several macbooks and a sony vio.
     

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