Motors Survival of the US car?

After watching the Simpson's episode on outsourcing and the constant news about GM & Ford's decline, can the US car industry survive long term? With Honda, Toyota and Hyundai designing and making cars there I have my doubts.


imports



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domestic

 

I love the fact you base your argument on the simpsons.

 

Yeah, they just need to build cars with smaller engines.

 

Is there such a thing as the US car anymore? Consider all the partnerships and technology trading. Consider who is actualy designing the cars. I'm not sure the cars today are from any one particular source. Especialy since the attempt at reviving the muscle cars has failed in terms of sales and most industry watchers agree that the american manufactures are out of touch with consumers.

 

Couldnt be closer to the truth: They are trying to revive the muscle car in a time of international oil crisis and peak oil prices!? People are going for hybrids and smaller engined more economical Japanese/EU cars because they save them money. Or, it's just manufactured in China because they can pay them a dollar a day, environmental standards are piss poor and electrical costs are tuppence.

 

One can hope the American made car goes the way of the Yugo. When I rent a car even I won't pay to drive anything made in this country!

 

I'd also have to say about the standards of the produced cars also, American cars are notoriously known as badly built yet the workers have great pride in the whole "made in America" concept yet why wont they make better/reliable cars? (E.G. Germans?) Iam sure that the motor industry over there have lost touch with the consumer but also they must factor in what Jonny just said a few posts up. But if some Jap company can produce cars that function well is cheap with high quality finish then the American car industry wont last for much longer anymore.

 

All Ford and GM need to do is downsize the number of models they make, as well as a downsize in engine size, up production quality, and start shipping world-wide.
In most countries, especially over here in Europe, big, thirsty cars from the US wouldn't stand a chance. Why buy a US saloon that is as fast as a Euro-box, but guzzles 3 times more petrol?

Lots of U.S. cars never leave the US for whatever reason, which seems like a foolish idea to me. Lots of other companies make cars that ship worldwide, even if they have slightly different specs, they aren't always completely different models - Honda, Nissan, BMW, Merc-Benz, Jaguar, the list goes on and on.

 

Well, judging by Wal-Marts success, americans like cheap stuff at the expense of...quality/long term viability/US manufactured goods. So, I guess if China starts making semi-decent cars, the US manu's don't really stand a chance.

 

You make sound so easy.

Btw, both Ford and GM have a worldwide presence. The don't "ship" overseas because they have maunfacturing plants all over that are closer to the markets they serve.

 

Europeans and Japanese KNOW how to make a chassis though. Lets be honest here: who has driving a US built car that handles well?
US cars are typically states designed though. That just doesnt sit right in the EU particuarly and the Japanese WILL NOT buy outside of Japan unless it's a BMW/Merc which carries prestiege with it. They are even more dedicated to supporting national companies that the states. The europeans prefer the look of EU cars and our roads typically have more (fast) bends so are built to acommodate. Im not talking: hit a stop sign and do a 90 degree round the corner.

Why dont we do a run down of the most popular cars, what their designs are like and where they are made for in the states/EU/Japan. Tbh, I dont have a clue about specifics.

 

Top 5 most popular cars

Honda Civic
Toyota Rav 4
Toyota Camry
Toyota Yaris
Toyota Corolla

Top 5 gas guzzlers

Dodge Ram SRT-10 12mpg
Lamborghini Murcielago 13mpg
Bentley Arnage 14mpg
Mercedes-Benz G 14mpg
Jeep Grand Cherokee 15mpg

Top 5 Most Efficient

Honda Insight 66mpg
Honda Civic Hybrid 51mpg(highway)
Toyota Prius 51mpg
VW Golf 44mpg
VW New Beetle 44mpg


That about sums up the more important categories, note all production vehicles, not one off race cars

 

I've noticed recently that a lot of the US manafacturers are buying up smaller companies elsewhere and selling their cars under its own name. The other day I drove a Chevrolet Lacetti estate (which is a rebadged Daewoo) and was very impressed. One of these.

So why don't they start selling those models domestically? That's the way American manafacturers need to go IMHO.

 

Ford sell some really nice consumer centric cars in europe - especially the ka, fiesta and focus, as well as some good stuff under other marques - including volvo, jaguar, aston martin. They even own a third of mazda - so i don't think its so much the american motor companies that have a problem but rather the american market cars. They need to change to be more inline with their european/asian equivilents. I doubt any 'average' american would even consider a ka, and they'd consider the focus a 'small car'.

GM also own the vaxhall/opel brand. Just start selling corsas in the USand all would be good. - Something small and fun.

It's just different tastes/needs. In the Uk your never more than 10 mins from a supermarket, so you don't need a huge boot to carry food- and in addition the roads are too small/narrow to drive the huge monsters that the american motor companies produce at their 'top end'.

 

Bah.. not me. I always have big engines.. it must make up for my very small penis no doubt.

The fact is, there will always be a market for large cars. I think it;s unfair that large engines get taxed to be honest, as we're already being taxed due to fuel duty. Plus, how many cars as a percentage of road users are big engines anyway? How many Mustangs, or Audi RS6s do you see day to day? Big engined cars probably only make up a single figure percentage of total traffic, so why tax us? Tax the ZILLIONS of stupid little cars with 1.4 litre engines or less if you ask me... after all, there are so many more of them. Those that can afford, or even can't afford to run a big car with a V6 or V8 engine pay enough already, and there are so few of us proportionately... they should just leave us alone and let the majority who are contributing the majority of the greenhouse gasses pay. If recent plans come to fruition, I'd end up paying £1800 a year on road tax if I get my Mustang, yet a family with three farty little cars will pay a total of half that for THREE cars... whose total polution will exede my one car. Plus... They'll do more mileage than me as well more than likely.

Yeah, lets pick on people with big cars.... that's really gonna help the planet. Idiots!.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that GM as a company hasn't made a profit making cars for years. The only part of the business (AFAIK) is GMAC - GM Automotive Credit, the people you get your car loan from. GMAC is keeping the rest of the GM companies afloat.
Perhaps the problem is that each of their subsidiaries is making different cars: there's GM in the US; there's Vauxhall/Opel in Europe; and there's Holden in Oz/NZ. There may be others, but I'm not sure.

If a company like GM can't make a profit with all these subsidiaries (Vauxhall are #2 in the UK, I'm fairly sure Holden is fairly popular in Oz too), what chance is there for their survival?

And Genesis, you may be right, but if people in the US have to travel further to pick up their groceries, why allow the MPG to be so appallingly crap?

cderalow, I'm sure you've forgotten the Hummer from your list. I know someone who had to drive a Humvee from the south of England to the North (London to Newcastle). It cost him over £1000 in fuel costs alone. That's about 275mi using approx 250 gallons of fuel. By my guestimate, that's around 1mpg. Granted, most of that will have been motorway driving, but pretty crap wouldn't you say? Even for a US car!!

 

I personally want to see a few more diesels around here. A VW TDI gets better mileage than some hybrids and is probably a bit sportier too. There are not too many vehicles that interest me much anyway why not make them lighter and more fun to drive, like my motorcycle .

 

I prefer larger engines personally. I like the torque. it seems like you guys are again taking the extreme end. I have really stopped caring. The car I drive now has a 4.3L V6 @ 190hp @ 384LB of torque (it produces 90% of its power below 2500rpm) it also gets 20mpg highway while towing along heavy construction material. Hopefully my next car will have a 6L engine @ 400hp @ 400LB of torque with a 6speed manual.

Say what you will. I know what I prefer and ill stick to it. There will always be people with large engines as long as there will be cars, japanese or otherwise.

Some are into disposable cars and some are into corner carvers and some are into hard hitting and accelerating cars. I'm the third kind.

 

I think we are drifting away from the original point, which is to say that out of the three types of cars you mentioned, none are fully "American" cars any more. The engines, electronics, transmissions and body design are primarily coming from all coners of the globe. Take GM, as pointed out, they own Vauxhall in the UK, Opel in Germany, Saab in Sweden, Holden in Oz and has many partnerships with other comapnies including Suzuki, Isuzu and Daewoo. It participates in techonology development centers with DaimlerChrysler and BMW and Toyota Motors, and vehicle manufacturing ventures with several automakers, including Toyota, Suzuki, Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp, AVTOVAZ of Russia and Renault.

How on earth can you say that the cars they are designing and selling are still "American"? Big. Small. It makes no difference. Now as to the US market, if you like big engines, fine. But the market has pointed to very different trends that over the last 5 years US car makers have refused to see. Toyota is going to over take GM this month as the leading car manufacturer for the first time ever. The only car markets that are making money for GM at the moment are the overseas markets, with different models and designs. They brought Bob Lutz back and the first thing he said was, the cars are crap, that GM needed to make models people wanted to buy not be bribed to take with "incentives". Imagine a US car that people wanted to own so bad there were no cash back, 0% interest, or any other dealer incentives. That is where the US big 3 have failed.

 

Wal-Mart for the lose! I hate the place. Everything is crap there.

As for the cars, we need to stop building those stupid SUVs. >:| They just burn gas and take up parking spots... Its not like anyone even goes off-roading in them. Bring in the smartcar!