Other Swiss Army Knife and UK laws

From what I recall, (not sure if it's only US law or UK law too..) but you can have a fully automatic knife in your possession IF you do have reasonable grounds for it.

Example: You only have one usable hand.

Basically Herb' hit the nail right on the head with regards to needing a reason as it were.

Box opening/letter opening etc won't ever cut it as there are purpose built devices for doing that (Just walk around tesco for a bit and you'll see all the staff have proper box cutters)

Also the blade does need to be suited to the job you're doing with it for it to be 'ok' for example, a 12" hunting knife would not be best suited to cutting/stripping cables, however a small folding knife that may be part of a multitool, would be.

A 'legal' way around the restriction on fully automatic blades would be those designed by Kershaw, which through some interesting lever and shaping of the blade, do 'flick' open when you press the back of the blade through the casing (Look for "The Onion" for more info). But having said that, just because it's not foul of the automatic part of the law, doesn't mean you have an entitlement to carry it unless you have a damn good reason.

Pro tip: If going between home and place(s) of work, make sure knife isn't easily accessible; tool box, zipped part of a bag, at the bottom of a bag under stuff, locked glove box, locked boot of car - NOT IN YOUR POCKET OR ON YOUR KEYS!

Basically you need to make sure it couldn't be 'easily' accessed in the event of you being attacked or whathaveyou as that would indicate forethought, and it's reasonably foreseeable that in such an event you have equipped yourself with an offensive weapon.

Normal keys shoved between your fingers however, would be an example of an impromptu arming of yourself for self-defence purposes (assuming your assailant has some form of weapon of their own)

 

Not true I'm afraid. And there's such a thing as asking why someone is taking photos before being arrested.

 

Are you speaking from experience Bidibadgi ??

 

Ask your mum! lol!



On a side note, times have changed and it is rare to find the need of a pocket knife even though I carry one, I actually find the screw drivers very handy.

Journeying to University I would usually have my folding box cutter in my bag, used on countless times. On my key chain i have a mini pocket knife blade is about 1in or so and you couldn't slash or stab with it as its too fragile, and would snap back on your finger.


Bring back the 1940's just without the war and all. Peoples attitudes towards knifes were so much different, every male would carry a pocket knife even the officers.

I object to the sale of combat knives like below, there is no need for them at all.

 

Cheers fella, but I'm down in the republic. Personally, I could care less. I use all my knives for actual practical purposes.

 

Firstly, can I ask what the charge would be?

Secondly, congratulations for being an officer who knows a little about the law

As for the "probable cause" argument, bear in mind that Section 44 of the Terrorism Act basically means they can search you without any reason in a designated area (as well as a whole bunch of other Orwellian ********). The whole of London is one such area, but there's no way of really knowing if your present location has been designated as such by a senior police officer.

I often have a knife, as part of my Leatherman, on me as it sometimes useful out and about in rural Cornwall. It's never been an issue for me, but most policing down here is on the roads and outside pubs at the weekend and that's about it.

 

Yes, but when you buy them from a gun store that has to operate legally, lest they be shut down, I'd say the logic has a fairly reasonable base

I should have specified where I bought mine from, though, for the sake of clarity.

As for the gun comparison, if you're buying from a well-to-do retailer (Which you really should be) then you'll be asked to prove you are licensed, in my experience.

Oh, I'm not contesting that. I should have been more clear, I was referring specifically to the OPs case, since his Swiss Army knife has a locking blade.

 

I actually think the knife laws in Scotland are phenomenally lean, if I wanted to purchase a non traditionally made Katana into the country is to import it into Scotland and sneak it into England. Same with the Bailsongs I was after, into Scotland where they're legal to import buy and sell.. I think you can still get RIF's without an Airsoft license up there too... THINK.. not sure.

With regards to police officers using case law, I was under the impression a police officer has to prove intent prior to issuing any form of charge. I was once stopped in a friends car and was seen to be carrying lock-picks (I'm a lock enthusiast...) as I was playing (picking) a Euro lock while my friend was driving. Police officer passed a comment of "I could nick you for that" when I replied "Oh? For what?" the officer asked "Registered in the locksmiths guild?" when I replied no I was informed that it's an offence to carry them.. However when I pushed to find out which law states it's illegal to carry lock picks he couldn't answer, because there isn't a law against it.

However if he could provide proof that I had the intent of doing something illegal using them, then he would have had a good argument. It's like saying I've got a hammer in my toolbox but that doesn't mean I've got the intent to bludgeon someone to death with it.

 

I'm not one hundred percent certain, Steve, but I think any Scottish Airsoft retailer still has to check UKARA registration before shipping to the UK - Redwolf over in the US do check. Whether they have to, or whether they do it to cover themselves, I can't say. But since Scotland is a whole hell of a lot closer, I expect there's a better chance to enforce the law.

The Police, I think, ought to be better versed in the aspect of the law they cover - Which understandably adds a lot to the shoulders of the "average" PC. They shouldn't be making "I could arrest you" accusations without being able to provide solid reasons. The large majority of the Police Officers I've dealt with have been centralised around the (alcohol) Licensing aspect of the law, and every one of them has been well versed in the law, and current legal examples, but they knew, and could cite reason for their actions. Made me respect them more, and appreciate their input when it was offered.

The number of times I've walked through a metal detector/X-Ray system at a train station with airsoft weapons (While, at the time, not holding a valid UKARA (the weapons were legal, bought before the VCR came into effect (VCR was not retroactive)) registration, and explained honestly to the officer enquiring (Usually British Transport Police, who happen to be well versed in the VCR bill), and walking away with all my belongings and not so much as a caution..

 

Yeah so you'll be fine then. The knife law is centered around carrying a knife. If as someone said you threw it in your bag, and don't keep it on your person, then you're golden. As far as weapons go it's hardly fit for purpose.

Realistically you could walk about with it in your pocket and quite easily explain it away. I don't know why you would, but if you mistakenly stuck it in a pocket, then did something that caught the interest of the police they'd probably be understanding as long as you don't come across as a raving madman.

It's not a weapon anyone's going to use in an assault when you can go into the pound shop and buy a vegetable or pairing knife for a quid. Or pop into B+Q and get a one handed lock knife that holds stanley blades for under a fiver.

Some of you guys are so paranoid.

 

That was my understanding as well.

Personally I think its rediculous that there are such onerous restrictions such as this since it isn't going to stop a thug from carrying whatever he wants.

From what I remember spring operated folding knives are completely illegal in the US. You can have spring assisted folding knives where you still have to at least flick the knife to open it.

 

I'll get to the point before I go on - unfortunately, your blade in its current form is illegal. There's no two ways about it I'm afraid. If it locks in any way, it's illegal as the UK law surrounding knife carry considers it a fixed blade if it is capable of locking in any way. Modifications made in an attempt to bring the knife up (or down as the case may be) to a level which is considered legal for carry in the UK are acceptable. If I were to remove the lock back mechanism (and ruin, FTR) from one of my smaller Spydies it would become instantly legal, but I'd never do that to a £40 blade never mind a £140 one.

I am well versed in UK knife laws because I have a substantial collection of small, moderately sized and large high performance knives. It's just a hobby, I do not carry any type of blade in public and do not even currently own a penknife which would be legal to carry in my toolbox for work purposes. I had a locking knife with a 3.5" VG-10 steel blade confiscated by a police officer during a random car search on my way home from work one night about 3 years ago. It was in my toolbox in the boot and the PC asked if I would open the box so he could verify that the contents were indeed tools. He wasn't arrogant about it or anything, but he just explained to me that he was going to have to confiscate the knife and informed me of the law, mainly the part about lock back knives being illegal to carry and use in public. Before any of you ask why I was stopped and searched by the police, take into consideration that such actions were a more common occurrence until recently over here and as far as I can remember it was during a security alert.

My knives range in size and what most enthusiasts would call "menace" from an innocent little Spyderco Ladybug to a deadly Sog Trident (especially illegal to carry in the UK due to its assisted opening mechanism). I've got a lot of Spydercos, some Ka-Bars, a couple of Sogs and a couple of CRKT blades at the moment, but I'm always buying, selling and trading them with the folks on CPFMP (candlepowerforums marketplace) as well as my selection of high end flashlights. I know some of you have expressed your disagreement with the existance of knives which are designed to be used as weapons, but please don't put blinkers on, and remember that most LEOs such as police officers and members of the armed forces in countries like Canada and America must carry a self defence blade at all times whilst on duty. This also goes for many members of the public in such countries, but I'm not dredging that debate up at this time. The vast majority of knives in my collection which could be or are intended to be used as weapons were designed with much input from the US Army, and many US soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan carry ad use them on a daily basis for anything from food preparation to hand-to-hand combat. No knife is dangerous provided it is in the right hands and used properly and responsibly. Having said that, let me make it clear that I - as someone who has the utmost respect and a soft spot for a well designed blade - do not consider threatening behaviour or vicious attacks involving the use of a knife in public proper, responsible or acceptable behaviour.

 

i use my good jugment, dont go out in a hoody with your m8s with it if i on walk or camping i cary a knife most off the time. i think if youyr in the city is a no.
and dont have it on show.

 

Sorry Cosmo87, but have you ever written anything before joining this forum? I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but damn that's just wrong.

Bindi Edit: Be nice

Anyway I don't know the UK laws, but to me it wouldn't make sense for such a small knife to be illegal. 1) it's a manual folding knife 2) it's a multi tool (wouldn't think this to be the optimal tool for stabbing) and 3) it's small.

Also thank god people around here aren't all jumpy about knives. When I went to get my passport from the police station, a construction worker walked in with his working gear, including a good proper puukko(the traditional knife over here). If it makes sense for you to carry, it's gonna require some rubbish luck to get arrested.

 

Excellent answer. I've got until September to decide what to do with the knife but I've already become quite attached to it - it's been very useful in a number of situations.
I think I'll probably remove the locking mechanism when it comes down to it.

 

hm... knife laws seem to be a lot more strict in everyone else's part of the world. I mean, I have at least 10 knives, and only 4 of them are illegal(3 switchblades and a butterfly knife). Nearly all of them are about 3 inches long(just the blade). I actually do use them for practical purposes though, as I live on a farm. the switchblades and butterfly are unnecessary though.

 

Could you have been more vague with what you feel is incorrect with what I said? What part of terrorism legislation is it you find hard to understand? Perhaps it's the existance of it in the first place? There are thousands of COG's working in different countries constantly feeding back intel that terrorist attacks are planned and imminent in this country, and for aslong as that remains the fact the national terrorism level with remain at severe (Severe meaning that a terrorist attack is very likely). This in turn will mean that people are going to be treated with greater suspicion.

Are you talking from experience? If so, I'd like to hear what that experience is.

I'm sure the people who have lost their families and friends in terrorist attacks won't mind a few photographers being questioned about what they are doing.

 

Just things I've read from people/articles covering public political or military events for one example. It's not constrained to just London. It's not about people being questioned - I have nothing against being questioned by a rational police officer - it's the reports of arrests that completely disregard common sense and the abuse of anti-terrorism laws. I know it's better to be proactive but when law abiding people have their civil liberties infringed, we're not hitting the balance. I'm saying there must be a better way but I honestly don't catalogue everything I ever read for discussions such as this so I can't be an more specific. I'd love to, really.

There are plenty more photographers and tourists than there are terrorists, otherwise we'd be living in Iraq with explosions popping off everyday. Pulling out the old Daily Mail "terrorist attacks and lost lives" argument is tantamount to living in fear and locking up every Asian with a beard. Why don't we just all have ID cards, martial law and tell the government whenever we're leaving the house?

Remember you're more likely to get run over or die of ebola.

 

I avoid certain parts of my town because they "might" be dangerous even though I'm more likely to be run over or die of ebola.

Just because it's statistically improbable doesn't mean that sensible precautions shouldn't be taken.