Switch Side Story

I'm just as "MACS SUCK!1!!!1" as the rest of you.

I'm also just as "MACZ R00L!!11!16" as the rest of you.

...to a point.

See, I love tweaking my PC to juice that little bit of performance out of it for so little hurt to the wallet.

But when the time comes and you plug in your new video card without installing drivers in the correct, 4 or 5 step process then you basically start to **** around in windows... You do like I did. Turn on your Mac, go look it up, and fix it.

Seriously. That is why I love my G4/450. I bought a new video card. I plugged it in. It was instantly a second monitor output without configuration.

People will say Panther is slow, and it's true. God **** does it ever take awhile for some larger pages to load as compared to my PC, but I like the idea of not being raped with adware everytime I look at a page.

Er. I'd rather not get into this. But I can say it's obviously a labor of love for either platform.

From your PC side, you enjoy your performance and relatively less money spent [ for recent, but not bleeding edge hardware ].

On the Mac side, you enjoy your stability. I haven't shut off my Mac since I installed Panther 2 months ago. Only for some software updates, which are seamless IMHO.


...AND whoever said you can't mod a Mac. Bah! You can build custom cases for both. In the case of my G4, all you needed to do was short one reed switch to let the computer sleep without being in the Apple case. I hacked it to work to speed up the fans when I remove the lid of my custom case.

 

GOO;

Very well written article, and I can see where you're coming from.
I'm 22 and have used PC's since I was quite young (messed about with them at around 8, and got into them properly (and started learning) at roughly 11/12 years old). I did use Mac's for a year at college, but didn't really get on with them (mainly because of the fact I'd never used one before) - I'm way too impatient to go and learn how to use a Mac, so I didn't bother...(just like when I recently setup a PC with Mandrake...I only fiddled with it for a couple of days, but couldn't be bothered to learn how to use it).

It's kinda like when I was back at school, and the Acorn was in it's last few years of 'school computer' status. There was a guy in my class who had an Acorn at home (and also claimed they were better than PC's...?!), and I just found it really strange how he could sit there and really tweak and fiddle with something that, for me, didn't really feel like a 'proper' computer (basically, he'd use an Acorn in the same way I'd use a PC).

I think that over the past 5 or 6 years, computer hardware has got to a point where there is no real winner in terms of performance...graphics cards, CPU's etc, all seem to do the job they're designed for incredibly well, yet, for example, my AMD can do certain things faster than an Intel equivelent. Just like an Nvidia card can outperform my ATI in certain applications.

Imagine a Mac user, that's only breifly used a PC - I'd guess that everything would appear 'out of place' as he/she has no experience, and is used to Mac OS.

Good look with the Apple...

Changing to completely different hardware/software/OS is something I don't think I could do (yet) - but I'm really interested in finding out your first impressions.

But please, for BT's sake, perform at least 1 mod to it!!

 

A well written article, and I cannot wait to view the results.

According to "Apples are the Best" Magazine Apples outperform any and all PCs, as well as most supercomputers and sports cars.

According to "PCs are the Best" Magazine, Apple users are hippies that make up their own benchmarks whilst using only Aldus Pagemaker and some strange form of Netscape 1 for browing the web. (Ha! Aldus!)

My personal experience is PCs are better because I have one, and have used one ever since the big cow-spotted box showed up on our doorstep containing the 486/33 beast with 200 MB of Hard Drive Space!

I've actually used macs at work and have had almost as many problems with the mac as I have with the PC. The diffference is I know how to get a PC to work, so that's what I stick with, for now.

Who know's what the future holds? But for now, when I want to pull up a pannel to control printers, I go to control panel->printers, not apple->common apps->[apple's version of notepad]->try to print->click the 'printer setup' button....
(sorry, 30 min of searching did not yeild a printer setup window, and 1 hour of downloading mac drivers and installation software specifically for this printer and OSX did not yeild a single printed page)
On my wife's laptop I plugged the printer into the USB port and got a window saying "your printer is ready to be used".

Of course now that I'm home, I can't get my PC to share the printer to the laptop through my wireless network anymore for some reason, and can't even browse the shared folders. (we won't go into how many hours were spent on THAT problem!)

That said, if someone gave me a Mac, I'd be happy, if someone gave me a PC, I'd be happier. And the only difference is the amount of knowledge and experience I have of one over the other. (that and I hate negative ad campaigns... I mean.. if I'm supposed to think different, why do I only get one case choice for the good machines? And only one CPU choice? )

In the words of the Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, "Every OS Sucks"

 

I am as about as old as GOO - and had a shorter but similar experience!

In my last job I had a the [un]enjoyable job of making our website cross browser compatible - that included Netscape, IE and a host of others. The interesting thing about this was that for the first time I was introduced to a TV in a bulbous perspex box controlled by a see-through mouse and keyboard..... I was intrigued!

The technician announced in single letters that this thing was a M-A-C and that it ran an operating System called U-N-I-X and as a [intel] PC developer that was all I needed to know except I had test the website in all the browsers available for OS9 and OSX.

OK... to cut a long story short I was quietly impressed with the machine (the browsers are another story.)

I found I could install OSX on top of OS9 and it *became* the main operating system. If I executed a program that was written for OS9 then OSX ran a sandboxed version of OS9 and executed my program entirely within that! This was amazing - no need to worry about partitions, dual booting, network conflicts - it did it all itself and unlike P&P (which admittedly has got a lot better) worked! All the browser installs I (easily) downloaded installed without a hitch and even though I messed up the locations it was an easy matter of drag and drop to correct things (what no registry corruption!)

In my new found amazement I did find that a few niggling things which effectively boiled down to aesthetics. I didn't *like*the lack of explorer, or having to *find* my applicaitions. I found trying to navigate the command prompt a nightmare! All these things though are overcomeable. Probably the worst though, was the speed degredation. The more applications I had open the slower the machine ran, irrespective of whether they were doing anything or not.... I can't explain how or why, it just slowed down. With the comments above this appears not to have changed.

It seems to me that this slowness is an inherent problem in the OS - and for that reason I will not go to a MAC......yet! There is so much PC v MAC debate that I get sick of it. Lets take a G5 and assume we can get a PC of *exactly* the same performance and same programming tools (..its a hypothetical case!) which machine would you choose to do your job? Personally I would go with the PC; I need to run more than one application and have personally experienced Mac-Lag. However if I was a professional author or computer graphic artist, the MAC must surely be up there!

To me it comes down to the tools and their availability for the platform we use rather than the inherent nature of the beast that runs it. Pragmatically all my tools are on a PC; so that's my tool of choice. The gaming avenue I have to admit I didn't realise was so strong either on the MAC. But I can't do FPS (travel sickness ) - so that limits mwe too.

Saying that - if I was offered one for free, I doubt I'd refuse!

Stu

*EDIT* OneSeventeen - just paraphrased my epistle, late here. Tired!

 

Apple Menu, System Preferences, Printers, Set up Printer...

OSX is not the easiest to set up printers with, an inherent issue with Unix...

OSX loves ram, and any OS slows down with many apps open... OSX uses a different protective scheme to use memory and it gets slower because the entire amount of ram is now split in two and three... Windows uses 1/3 of the ram and then takes more until it crashes when it loses all the ram...

OSX is Unix... oviously. With no registry they need to load the whole app to open it and not just a small peice. That means if an app crashes it does nto take down the whole computer... thus longer load times... slightly. Overall the OS is slower that is fine, but not as slow as win xp on computers with little ram... Yes a G5 is as fast if not faster than the fastest chip stock clocking out there... the architecture just makes it faster in some areas, like complex floating point calcs (i.e. video editing)...

Well said... Why can't we all just be friends...



I will always be a mac person but I enjoy my pcs too much, what else would keep me in business...

 

Calling it a switch is pretty biased. Most of us are just adding a mac to our windows machines, and not replacing all windows machines with macs. Nice review, btw

 

i just found this whole article very interesting. i've never been one to side either way on the MAC vs Windows debates - i see the pros and cons in both (and i don't have enough experience with MACs to properly say they suck or they're "1337"). but i'm really looking forward to the rest of these articles. keep up the good work, GOO.....

 

yep.. that's the interesting thing about this. It's not a dry analysys of Macs vs. PCs.. it's what they're actually like to live with. I wonder if GOO's experiences are anything like mine. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, or any future articles. I also wonder if GOO will fall foul of the "Must justify my purchase" syndrome - It's gets us all to some degree.

I wonder if GOO realises that he's just become a lab rat, with us all watching closely... he he.

 

I'm 90% decided to get a Mac also. I use my laptop more than my desktop and I'm getting sick of the constant little nags with Windows and a total lack of decent battery life. My laptop is a 15" P4 Toshiba but having lived with this for a little over a year I yearn for something smaller, lighter and with a decent battery. I think I'm going to stump for a 12" iBook with Airport Extreme card. As my GF works for a Uni I can get it with a Higher Education discount for just over £770 delivered.

I'm looking forward to an update to this article soon!

Of course I'll still be keeping my Shuttle for games!!!

 

I too am a PC guy who has been thinking about making the switch. I've always loved the style of mac's (hardware and software) and after seeing the inside of the new G5 I nearly fell over. I love the fact that there are no visible cables, and the way it is setup for airflow is cool. The design was really well thought out. So well that even Lian Li is copying the design. The main reason i never switched before was the unstable OS, the lack of games, and high price. Now they have a stable OS and they are starting to put out good games. So now all they have to do is lower the price and they will give the PC a good fight. Another reason for wanting a mac is that i spend all day fixing and installing PC's and it's pretty much the last thing I want to see when I get home.
Great post GOO i can't wait to read the follow up.

 

no security flaws?

http://www.jayallen.org/journey/2004/05/mac_os_x_highly_critical_security_flaw

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/05/17/HNmacoshole_1.html


imagine how many flaws there would be if people spent their whole lives trying to blow up the world (so to speak) with viruses like they do to Windows

that goes for any OS, of course, but I just wanted to say that it isn't as if the MAC is invincible

 

Oh, I'm aware of the flaw...

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=58992
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=59319

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/28/mac_bug_mishandled/

not the easiest process however

 

You few people that are using Macs from a school to base your opinoin on. Don't. A school pc is never a good example, we just got brand new laptops this year and after a few months they are horrible. Most schools don't look after their computers very well. Also they cheap out on options because they are buying in bulk. At my school there is a ton of spyware running that makes the computers horirble. But the IT's don't do anything about it. Try out a real mac then form your opinoin. I've been thinking about a mac. I sure like that 12 inch powerbook. However i'm building a pc before i go mac. Also all you people talking about how your modding options are limited and how it looks like everyone elses. Its a retail computer. Its no different then going to bestbuy and getting an emachines. Its going to be mass produced. For a retail computer Mac's are very nice. I still like my pc however. I don't think i could completely switch over. But it would be nice to have both. Also one thing that makes me mad is how mac people make fun of us windows people because of all our viruses. I've seen a few announcements on the screen savers about trojans for the mac. They happen just not as much. Windows in the main target because its the most commonly used. If Macs become more popular like they are starting to, everyone will start writing viruses for it.

 

My school has macs and windows pcs, and these are my findings:

Using the internet on a mac is awful - IE5 or a pretty poor conversion of mozilla called safari.

Macs take about twice as long to login/out.

If the macs crash (frequent occurance) they take 3-6 mins to restart, where pcs take ~30 secs

nearly all software is incompatable/ released later/ causes crashes on a mac

macs have that dumb mouse with only one button

the macs are soooooooo noisy compared to pretty much silent Dells - they make a painful high pitched whine

HOpe this helps
Ch424

 

CH424 - you don't mention what specs either the PC's or Mac's are. Of course a PC will out perform a Mac if the PC is brand spanking new and the Mac is a used abused 3 year old.

Personally, I've had my Mac for around a week now, and I get on with it pretty well. I have an iBook G4 1GHz and have compared it with my 2GHz P4 laptop and would say that they perform about the same. Of course my desktop PC is faster, and I still use it for games, but I would say that even my desktop PC booting into XP takes about the same amount of time to boot as OS X on the iBook.

As for software, many of the main packages are available for both platforms - ie Microsoft Office, Photoshop, etc. In fact Photoshop is ported from the Mac to the Pc. Also for things like video editing you have Final Cut Pro for the Mac which is pretty much industry grade.

As for internet explorer, well, it really isn't that great on any platform. Not happy with Safari either? Use something else! Mozilla, FireFox, Opera, Lynx - spoilt for choice!

I realise that there will always be people with good and bad experiences of both platforms.

The main reason that I bought a Mac is because of the little annoyances with Windows. Little things like random reboots, sound breaking up whilst gaming, constant updates. I realise that there are updates here too, but so far everything has worked out of the box. Another thing about Mac's - if you can buy it for a Mac, it'll work on a Mac! If it's on the Apple web site, then it'll work on every Mac. Pathces for different types of motherboard? Not on a Mac.

Dont take this as a PC bashing rant, it isn't - as I said I'm still keeping mine, I was just pointing out that I could have come on this thread and made observations about my PC booting Windows 95 in 5 mins and my Mac booting OS x in 30 secs......of course it would be true if I used a 486 with 8Meg RAM!

 

Why does everything have to come down to a versus thread? No one ever wins... ever.

Many people are angry about theone button mouse. That is like being mad at the crappy 2-button, no scroll wheel, generic mouse that it usully shipped with computers. Just replace it.

Many people argue about the stability. Whether or not you believe it, Apple's OSX is based upon *nix code. If a program stops working, you have the ability to stop that program. Also, if the GUI stops works, (I assume) you can turn it off to. That does not mean that it is invincible, however.

Many people argue about the speed. There will never be a good benchmark that compares them objectively. Trying to compare a PC and and Mac is like trying to compare a toaster and a waffle iron.

Many people argue about the design. Sure, you only get one choice, but there is usually a new model (G3, G4, G5) about every year, so you can get some variation. If you were really inclined, you could mod one, or even find out how to get it into a regular ATX case.

Many people argue about the Macs at school. Of course these are going to be not-that-great. All school computers are swamped with spyware and viruses, and they don't have any security. School PCs are generally kept in beter condition just because people know what to do.

Despite all that, I think that it just comes down to what we are used to. If you grew up with computers, use them. Don't bug the Mac users. If you grew up with Macs, use them. Don't bug the PC users. If you are ignorant of something, of course it isn't going to work as well in your hands. It would be like a blue-collar man trying to work an oil-rig. He just doesn't know what's going on.

... that's all.

- tf

 

Here are the specs:
PIII 666MHz +256Mb/XP is better than 1GHz/512Mb/OS9 eMac
P4 2.4GHz+512Mb/XP is better than 1.25GHz DP G4/1Gb/OS9
AthlonXP 2700+/1.5Gb/XP is better than dual 1.8 G5/1.5Gb/OSX
Some things, like video encoding are just silly: The Athlon machine does it in 0.7 times the length of the video, where the G4 takes 4 to 7 times the length of the video, and the G5 2 times while making a stupid 9 fan noise.

ch424