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Storage Synology or...

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Mister_Tad, 30 Nov 2018.

  1. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    Two of them side-by-side should fit on a shelf ;) I'm not using 10G so I'm not sure if it'd be able to saturate it. I know from large file transfers I am saturating 1G though, because the file transfer quickly hits peak and just holds there.

    I am using WD Reds which are 5900rpm and I dunno in theory if they'd even saturate a single SATA link let alone a 10G link.

    Edit: so I checked the following review - https://www.storagereview.com/wd_red_4tb_hdd_review_wd40efrx - which on the 128k benchmarks suggests 146,000bps which for the sake of easy maths I'll assume is 145MBps. We know that a 1Gbps link will drive upto 125MBps.

    Assuming you have four hard drives and you're accessing files independently and the PCI-E bus is capable of getting the data out correctly, and you're using 4 x WD Red drives, you're going to be able to push 500MBps or 4Gbps. So if you're going to be doing mirrors you're only ever going to be pushing 250MBps or 2Gbps - you might as well just use the two onboard ports in an etherchannel bonded link, maybe using a HBA or RAID card with a SATA power Y splitter so you can squeeze two 2.5" drives in the top bay instead of the optical drive. You'll be about on par there I guess.

    Long and short if you really want enough parallelism that pushing the data off multiple hard drives is going to multiplex you up to 10Gbps, and you really don't want to homebrew it because the software isn't where you want it to be, then something like a Synology, expense aside, is likely where you're at.
     
    Last edited: 1 Dec 2018
  2. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    ^^ That felt like I was going down the path of a formal sizing document for a HLD so hope it helps :D
     
    Last edited: 1 Dec 2018
  3. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    I'll be using 6x Seagate Ironwolf Pros, so there's plenty of mechanical speed, but I was more thinking about the SW and HW keeping up with parity calcs. The underlying RAID in OMV is the same as Synology, but not sure if there any any differences in overheads in either case or if it's just down to the hardware...

    I've been assuming I could spec something at the same level of hardware as an RS1219+ for buckets less (or buckets more powerful for the same price), but I've not actually sat down and priced something up. I'll have to do that this week and go from there.
     
  4. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    The RS1219+ has 2GB RAM default, and an Intel Atom C2538 chip which is quad core 2.40ghz. It also has four x 1GBe NICs onboard, so you have to use the PCI-E slot to put a 10GBe card on if you want it. According to the Synology website that also means you can't use the m.2 adapter which utilises the PCI-E slot. I assume the software is installed on some kind of internal flash device however so this might not be an issue?

    According to this page https://openmediavault.readthedocs.io/en/latest/administration/storage/filesystems.html the btrfs tools in omv don't have a full GUI unlike DSM so if that's a key feature for you it's an instant point in DSM's favour.

    • Case - this is a 3U short case which supports mid-mounting on a 2 post rack https://www.logic-case.com/products...-depth-chassis-w-3-x-525-drive-bays-sc-34390/ and cost around £65 (I got it at Scan), the vendor doesn't specifically advertise it as supporting a 2 post rack but I visually checked and the holes are there to move the ears back - obviously I'm implying you can install a 4-in-3 adapter for the 5.25" bays and get 12 drives in the chassis. Also, this case takes a full ATX board, and offers you FIVE slots to install externally accessible cards in.
    • Motherboard - this mining board is on clearance for a song https://www.scan.co.uk/products/msi...-slots-intel-h310-s-1151-ddr4-atx-motherboard and I've suggested it because it's got 1x slots nestled right up against the 16x slot. This is important since most ATX boards these days leave a gap for a double-wide card, whereas this will allow you upto five cards. It has 6 SATA onboard.
    • Get a dual port 10GBe NIC which will likely be PCI-E x8 and install it in the x16 slot.
    • You can install upto 4 other NICs or SATA HBAs as needed to get your ports from the 6 onboard up to 12. I'd suggest probably a 4 port 1GBe NIC if you want the extra port density for some reason and 3 dual port SATA cards so you're spreading around the bandwidth.
    • CPU - leveraging the 8th gen quad core in the i3, actually I think the 8100T is just perfect for this https://ark.intel.com/products/129944/Intel-Core-i3-8100T-Processor-6M-Cache-3-10-GHz- - good speed and low power, however they appear to be like rocking horse doo-doo so the standard 8100 is probably suitable and only sips 10w more power.
    • Memory - I'd probably just put in a single stick of 8GB cheapest DDR4 you can find. Just in case you feel the need for 16GB in the future. But if you do use openmediavault it is really light on RAM usage.
    • PSU - probably worth springing for an 80Plus Gold unit, you'll need to do some research to find one with enough SATA cables, or you will want to customise your cables so you have three cables each with four connectors in line, but you'll want to make sure you have a decently strong 12V rail. I'd probably suggest you go semi-over-the-top and use a 750w unit or higher. You want a big unit that's under-utilised to keep the voltages rock steady for your hard drives.
    • I assume your UPS is already big enough to take the additional load but otherwise might be worth looking at an extra unit or an upgrade?
    With the above setup, you could also go a little overboard with the 5.25" drive bays and instead of using 4 3.5" in 3 5.25" you could get some 2.5" hard drives (shucking the seagate external 2.5" devices even?) and using 4-in-1 you can add 12 2.5" drives to the 8 3.5" drives for 20 drives total in the system. With four quad-port SATA PCI-E cards you'll have 16 ports in expansions lots and 6 ports onboard for a total of 22 ports. And if you really wanted to use every single port you could take 7 3.5" drives and put a 2-in-1 3.5" > 2.5" adapter in one of the 3.5" slots.

    I'd also suggest a 30GB or 60GB SSD either 2.5" or m.2 installed in a USB cradle and plugged into a motherboard header as your boot device, essentially using it as a DOM.

    Rough prices of stuff


    4 port PCI-E SATA card https://www.amazon.co.uk/Syba-SI-PEX40064-Controller-Profile-Brackets/dp/B00AZ9T3OU £22.25

    Dual port 10GBe NIC https://www.amazon.co.uk/i10Gb-Ethernet-Converged-X540-BT2-Catergory-6/dp/B075T5HBK9 £157.99

    If you don't mind a cheap brand SSD you can buy 60GB models for £15-£17 but otherwise Kingston do this 120GB unit for £20 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Technology-SA400S37-120G-Solid/dp/B01N6JQS8C but really openmediavault will only need a few gigabytes. It's possible to utilise the rest of the disk for other storage if you want so you could even put a 1TB SSD (931GB formatted) in, put the OS on the first 20GB or so and then have a high priority file store using the remaining 900+ GB. This needs to be not in any software RAID sets though or omv can't be installed on it since you have to boot the OS before you can set up the storage volumes.

    When you bear in mind that your RS1219+ doesn't come with a 10GBe NIC anyway, this is coming in under £650 including the NIC, or under £490 excluding the NIC, depending what size SSD you want and how many SATA ports you need.
     
    Last edited: 3 Dec 2018
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  5. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    Wow, muchas gracias dude.
    I've been away all week and mulling this over and thinking diving into component selection for the DIY route will trigger further analysis paralysis. This helps a lot - I'm thinking if I went DIY I would spec with ECC though, and IP KVM would be a must, so may tweak some components and see where I end up.
     
  6. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    There's no reason why you can't look at one of those Intel C-series boards with an IPMI interface and 12 SATA ports on board. Check out asrock rack. It'll increase the cost a bit overall but not by much given we were looking at £260 above in motherboard, CPU, and two SATA cards.

    Check this one out - just need a 10GB NIC in it and you've got 12 SATA ports onboard and IPMI - https://www.mini-itx.com/store/~C2750D4I

    Someone was selling one second hand on these forums for £275 but not sure if it sold.

    It's got this chip in it https://ark.intel.com/products/77987/Intel-Atom-Processor-C2750-4M-Cache-2-40-GHz- which is 8c/8t at 2.4ghz so should be more than sufficient.

    Can't help but thinking sticking with non DDR and putting a physical IP KVM on it would work out cheaper overall. Having ECC only matters if you want to use something like ZFS but if you're just going to use EXT4 in omw (which I'd suggest anyway tbh) then it's not going to save you much.
     
    Last edited: 8 Dec 2018 at 14:49
  7. AT0MAC

    AT0MAC ~PC ninja~

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    instead of building your own box, which can sometimes be bit of a hassle to put together both hardware and software, have you considered Asustor?
    They have some pretty interesting models on par with Synology
     
  8. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    I hadn't actually - been through the rest of them and ruled them out for one reason or another, apart from QNAP where I had been considering the 831XU as an alternative.

    Looks that they don't ovver 10GbE capability until you're up to the £2000 mark though which is a bummer.

    I put together a few more BOMs for a home brew, and all get within a few hundred of the Synology option, which for the software, support and packaging of the Synology doesn't make sense for me.
    To put a stop to continual research in circles, and have just placed an order for the RS1219+ and 6x6TB Exos 4Kn drives.
     
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  9. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    Sweet! And you’re going to bond 4x1GB NIC on it?
     
  10. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    For now... perhaps 2x1Gb even since I'm running low on ports.
    A Unifi XG-16 is on the radar to go some way to fixing that, and undecided but possibly a 48-500 to fix the problem for some time to come.
     

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