Motors Tell me all about...Motorbikes

Howdi ho.

I'm an utter newb not just to the motors forum but to the combustion engine thing in general, so I'm looking for some thoughts and just a tonne of info about bikes.

I've read a bit, and understand that for a while I'd be limited to a low power 125 33bhp bike, since I'm 19(since august). I'm intrested in whats good in that range, how much they cost, how good they are for petrol, how much the clothing and lessons would likely to cost me. Drawbacks of having a bike as opposed to driving a car, and the upsides too.

There's no motorbikes in the family, and no-one can ride so I can't ask the family for help, but there is a focus that I'm free to use whenever I pass a driving test, so I guess there's that to consider too. I'll mostly be using whatever I learn to ride/drive for going to college about 30 minutes away and back home again just a few times a week, not really heavy or long range use. Possibly costly enough for a poor student like myself in a car though, which is why I what started me thinking about maybe learning to ride instead of driving(for now).

Hit me with as much information as you can think of please folks

 

Hey

I am in the same boat as you - only i am 17.

In terms of kit, i have priced up some good spec kit costing me £600 or there abouts. You will need a helmet, and i would advise you always wear gloves, boots and leathers/ protective clothing.

In terms of a bike, i quite like the Aprilia RS 125, Cagiva Mito, Honda NSR 125 and CBR 125 - for all of these you are realistically looking at around £1000 for a decent model. I am looking on ebay atm, and you can get cheaper, but then it is ebay...

with respect to the other questions, they are the ones i am still trying to find answers for

Will be watching this thread closely

Yatesy

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/06/19112520/9

Looks like an interesting read, I just browsed it.

 

Intresting Bindi, but as it said, not a single person there was riding a bike below 500CC, only one was riding a 500, the rest were mostly riding 600's and above. Were I to get a lisence I'd be riding a 150 at most for the first 2 years, even after that funds would prevent anything too fancy.

I agree the risks are reasonably high, but the risks of dying on roads in general are high, and it's something that I can't say for the moment would be a factor in my decision.

 

Bump for two wheeled goodness.

 

You've got your limits a bit mixed up

On a Provisional License + CBT you can ride a 15bhp machine (typically a 125) with L plates (no pillions either)

If you go and pass a test you can ride upto 33bhp (which would typically be a mid-range bike with a restriction kit) for 2 years, after which you can play with anything.

After you pass 21 you can do the full license test, giving you acess to all bikes. If you are over 21 you can do a Direct Access test, which gives you immediate access to all power ranges of bike.

If you want to be cheap do your CBT (though do the geared one, not the auto-scooter one...have some pride), and pick up a cheap second-hand 125. Something like the honda CG125 will run forever and do 80-120 to the gallon. It won't break any speed records, but with a good bit of straight road you can see 60. You'll probably want something bigger after about 6 months if you want to pass your test, in which case look at the 500 range for cheap, reliable bikes (honda CB500, kawa ER-5 sort of thing). they aren't the most exciting machines around, but will easily see the other side of a ton, and leave 95% of all road cars in their dust, whilst doing 45-55mpg. Don't forget to get a restricter kit as well (a garage may need to fit it...I believe most take the form of an exhaust mod of some kind).

You can get more expensive bikes, but I have to say the chances of you dropping a bike are very high in the first 3-6 months. Everyone does, its nowt to be ashamed of. Fairing costs a fortune to replace, and insurance companies see it as a reason to triple your premiums. Unless you are planning on long journeys or track days you don't need it.

Get a full-face helmet, and make sure it fits (any bike shop will be happy to help you get a good fitting one. Definitely get some good gloves too, and seriously consider a decent jacket (if/when you fall your arms and shoulders will hit hardest). The helmet will probably set you back about £100, gloves £10-20, and a jacket anywhere for £50 upwards. Its worth it.

Hope that helps a bit...

BC

 

Hmm, I was reading today, and I was slightly confused about the testing.

From what I understand, I'd need to get a provisional and do my theory test, then I could go for a CBT which would be completed within a day probably, is that correct?

After this, I could ride only a 15bhp machine, with L plates front and rear, and as you say no second person.

So realisticly, would I want to get a cheap 125 to last me a few months, and prepare for a restricted access test on that, or would I want to go straight from the CBT into a restricted access test? I'm only 19, so I was under the impression that I'd have to do a restricted access test just to be able to take a 125 on the motorway and lose the L-plates, but still wouldn't be allowed anything higher then a 125 for the first couple of years.

What do you reckon on riding as a form of transport? Does the day to day enjoyment and cheapness make the wet days and dark windy morning unpleasentness worthwhile? Were I to get a 4 wheel lisence, I know the wettest I'd get would be walking from the house to the garage, with a bikes there's a whole lack of comfort there I'd presume :/

Thanks muchly for the post dude, info much apreciated

Meant to ask, realisticly how much would I be looking at for the bike, then insurance and tax, and all the gear neccesary? This is another thought, I'm talking about a bike being cheap but the focus I've got available would be taxed, I'd get insured for free on it probably, or at least have a no claims applied to me, and need no gear. Needs some thought too I guess.

 

You don't need the theory for the CBT, just your provisional. The CBT will take a single day, and cost about £80-100. The CBT is a very basic course covering the bare essentials of riding a bike...you'll spend about half a day in a playground going round cones, and then do a two hour road session, including a couple of things like U-turns and emergency stops. Its not a comprehensive course, and it just about covers enough to not get you killed.

Yes. The CBT is valid for 2 years, and if you haven't taken a test by that point you would need to redo your CBT. You wouldn't want to take a 125 on a motorway...you'd have issues getting upto 70, and they are very light and you'll get a lot of buffeting from lorries/cars etc. I got my old CG125 upto 60 on a dual carriageway and it felt like it way going to leave the tarmac. A bigger bike will hold the ground far better (much better balance and seating position), and you won't be redlining it just to avoid getting run over.

A lot of bike training places will do courses which cover the CBT and the full exam over a week. Its really upto you if you want to go straight onto a big bike, or whether you are more comfortable getting used to biking on a small bike. The CBT is a great introduction to bikes, its worth doing that just to see if you enjoy it. I was terrified at the start of my 2 hours, and at the end I just wanted to get back out there again!

The million dollar question. I love it...its highly addictive (which is probably its biggest downside). For commuting there is nothing better...the ability to filter through traffic is un-surpassed, and the acceleration will make all cars feel sluggish. It can be a 'mare in winter (get heated grips for winter, worth every penny and more), and you'll always get a bit depressed when it starts to rain, but the freedom it offers (in my opinion) more than makes up for the lack of comfort compared to a car.

A second-hand 125 can be picked up for about £500-600 in decent'ish nick. You can find them cheaper (there are a lot of generic chinese 125's if you look around, they tend to be templated off a big name 125, but build using pattern parts). Insurance on a CBT will be about £100-150 for TPFT. About £150+ for the armour. Your provisional will cost £35 (I think), and the CBT itself will be about £80-£100.
For the full course prices vary, but look to pay £300-500, depending on the number of days. An ER-5 (after a quick check on www.autotrader.co.uk) will cost anywhere for about £600 upwards. Couldn't say for sure on insurance, as my quotes will take account of the fact that I'm over 25, but I paid £150 for TPFT on a CB500 immediately after taking my test.

If you have a free car being offered it may well be cheaper if you have a car driving license. Bikes are not the cheapest things in the world to run, with a typical service period of only 4,000 miles (compared to cars, which have about 20,000+ service periods). With the older designs of bike (especially the 125's) if you have the space, tools and confidence you can probably get a Haynes manual and do a lot of it yourself, the engines are very basic.

//added. Tax is very cheap. Something like £15 on a 125 for a year, and £45 for a year upto 600cc. Not a concern for you given your location, but of course they are immune to the Congestion Charge as well (and some tolls).

 

Thanks again for the post dude, this is really clearing things up.

I guess I only have a couple of questions left, firstly, what's this ER-5 you mention?

Secondly: the main use for the bike would require me to be on the A9(dual carriageway) for about 60% of my journey every day, so any bike would be useless untill I was able to do this. Once I got a full lisence, would I be able to get more then a 150? Could I get a bike with a larger engine, that could fit within the bHP limts and still provide enough power to suit me?

Thanks again dude, great info

 

The Kawasaki ER-5 is a cheap 500cc bike, and is a typical "first big bike". Its not exciting, but it will do everything you ask of it without breaking down (couriers love 'em). (btw, the guy who rated it 30 on the linked page is obviously doing stupid things to his clutch to wear out the cable so often). There are other bikes in the same range (for instance the Honda CB500 or the Suzuki GS500 ) but they will be a little pricier for very little difference, especially restricted

If you got your full license you could ride upto 33bph, which would be something like an ER-5 with a restriction kit on it. I think the ER-5 only does 40-45bhp un-restricted, so you probably wouldn't notice too much difference, and several of the reviews on the linked page suggest going over a ton is nice and easy, even restricted.

You could take a 125 on the Dual Carriageway, but I don't think you'd enjoy it. A restricted 500cc, on the other hand, would be just about perfect. They will cruise at 80 all day, and the extra weight on the back wheel will make the journey far smoother than a 125 pushing the rev-limiter the entire way.

 

Arent insurers abit iffy about having a large bike and putting a restrictor on it in terms of your premium? Im in the same boat as spec, im after getting a bike to get me about.

Was looking at the cagiva mito but I heard that 2-strokes take abit of maintenance so i'd be better off going for the aprilla rs or the honda cbr125 the rs is a 2 stroke to, but the parts are much more readily available whats your opinion on that?

 

Insurers don't tend to give any discount if a bike is restricted, so will insure you at the class of the bike in its un-restricted format, so it would be a bit of a daft idea getting a restricted sports bike...you'll get none of the performance and all of the insurance premium. The ER-5 is insurance group 7, so its pretty cheap anyway.

2-strokes are being phased out due to tighter emission regulations, so parts will become harder to get hold of over time.

 

If you are a pedestrian crossing the road, yes.
If you are a cyclist, yes.
If you are a motorcyclist, yes.
If you're in a car or truck, no.

Crashing on the roads is a reasonably high risk. Injury is less so, mostly whiplash or stress from the experience but nothing long term if you're a car driver. Bikes aren't the problem, it's the other idiots in a ton of steel that think they own it and dont look for bikes in traffic when manovering.

 

Bindi, its not quite as cut and dry as that. Check out page 28 of this government report

Hitting cars is an issue, however it looks like when the biker dies its more lightly to be down to the biker speeding, especially in urban areas (having seen idiots on R1's blitzing down 30 zones I can believe this). In rural locales the main issue is loss on control.

I'd say a good amount of the problem is people getting bikes that are far too powerful, and then overcooking it, notably on corners...they then lose the front and depart the road...of course unlike tracks there are plenty of things to hit.

 

That's encouraging, since I know I'd be too poor to ever get anything powerfull xD

How much are ER-5's realisticly? You say 600 but 1k looks closer to the mark for most of them, and what about mileage, what's the point at which things are going to be so old and breaking apart that it's not worth buying them?

 

It really depends on how well looked after the bike has been, same as with cars. A bike thats done 30,000 miles, regularly serviced and well ridden is worth far more than one thats done 10,000, been thrashed to death and dropped.

Always make sure the bike has a full service history, and its worth checking the mileage on MOT's to see how much it does a year as well. If you can, see if a local bike garage would mind giving a prospective buy the once over. I'm lucky to have a very good specialist bike garage locally. If the seller objects to something like this, walk away...they are hiding something. There are plenty of bikes out there, and as you say you don't want one thats on its last legs.

It might be worth checking out local training centres...they nearly always use 500's for training, and may have one for sale. They will be well looked after (while they may have been dropped, they will have been fully repaired and well looked after). They can also be very cheap for a reasonably low mileage bike in good nick.

 

Fair point, well put.

Still, if someone falls off a bike they are likely to be more injured than someone who puts a car into a wall/other car through excessive speed.

 

If you are thinking of getting a bike, book a place in the nearest hospital now, to avoid the waiting list.

 

roffle, i've been hit by a car and slid off in the wet and i didn't need to go to hospital for either of them

...although saying that, being hit side on was at 25mph and sliding off in the wet about 15mph, so not too bad and the fact it was a moped

i believe the reason most people have accidents on motorbikes is due to ignorance of other peoples poor driving, themselves acting like muppets and little care/attention at the time by both partys...

 

a great deal of bike accidents in the US are rider error or cases of cars hitting bikes..

that said..

i can't imagine riding anything less than a 600 anymore... let alone a 125 that's not a dirt bike