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Texas homeowner acquitted of killing teen intruder

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Cthippo, 28 Sep 2008.

  1. 1ad7

    1ad7 New Member

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    Nexxo thanks for taking the time to explain your arguments it helps to shine light on what your true concern was. From reading I think your main concern is why they chose to charge him with murder when it in all likelihood wasn't but was a case of manslaughter, except the boys claim it was a murder which creates outrage. Although I agree that its rather important to make sure people are not using excessive force for no good reason, and forensic's might shine light on what could of happened but given the events I don't think the state felt they could satisfy the parents with a manslaughter case and also I doubt they wanted to. In there eyes this story reinforces the idea that in texas its very dangerous to commit crimes especially inside someones home. Only Mr. Gonzalez knows whether his force was justified. There is a good chance he made a over zealous decision and didn't need to shoot , the boys should not of broken into his house that is a fact.

    On a side note how did we get on the topic of immigration? Mr Gonzalez is obviously Hispanic and based on the names so are the boys... so how did this come up? Ill give my opinion either way :p.
    I live in Texas have most of my life and I do see that the current immigration is an issue and I have no idea how to fix it honestly, we need the cheap labor and yes it does affect the job market some on the lower levels, I think more jobs most Americans would be willing to work are taken away by outsourcing to India then by illegal immigrants. Shooting at people trying to cross doesn't make sense, attacking the smugglers and drug dealers maybe, but not in a mercenary fashion we need to work with there home governments to pursue them legally. Yet none of this I think will ever fix it the only solution I see is to either open up all the boarders and legalize all the drugs, and destroy there income. Or we can lock down the entire country, but then who is gonna do the jobs Americans gladly turn down?
     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It's a tragedy with no winners. I can understand how the boys' parents want Mr. Gonzales to be charged with murder, but I can also understand how Mr. Gonzales, after the fourth burglary, probably just snapped. My problem is that bad prosecution has resulted only in conveying the message what Mr. Gonzales' actions are not (i.e. murder) without clearly stating what they are (i.e. manslaughter). I wouldn't even mind if he got off with extenuating circumstances, but there has to be some legal consequences to his actions. Adults with firearms cannot really afford to just snap and screw responsibility.

    twentynine drew a parallel in his post with his situation, in which he shoots over the heads of illegal immigrants crossing the border into the US across his land. I think he's playing a dangerous game of escalation and that like Mr. Gonzales, he has lost perspective. He thinks that I can't really judge his situation because I'm not in the thick of it. We agree to disagree.

    I think the problem is that Americans are not prepared to do the jobs --for the same money anyway. In the UK we have crops rotting in the field since the government choose to restrict immigration from Eastern Europe. Why? Because the locals simply do not want to do the work that Eastern Europeans would --regardless of the reasonable pay. They'd much rather be on the dole. Immigrants are not here to take our jobs, dude, they're here to do them. There's a difference.

    The solution is simple, actually: really, seriously prosecute the employers of illegal immigrants. The bigger the company and illegal workforce, the bigger the fines. Simply make it uneconomical. The prices will go up as they are forced to hire a legal workforce who will expect proper pay, of course, and then we'll really see whether all those people who bitch about illegals are prepared to pay the price.
     
  3. twentynine

    twentynine Can never win...

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    I am glad to see we are on the same page.

    I agree with you on this one, except the last part about prices going up. Americans would rather not do the work the illegals do for the pay they get(usually not even as much as an American dollar). The work itself isn't bad(a common misconception in my mind, although in some places they do really unfavorable work), usually construction/yard work and small crop picking in the area I'm in, just the pay.

    Everyday on my way to work I see a foreman from a local construction company go pick up 10 to 15 illegal immigrants standing on the side of the road in a group. He offers them some money for the day and they pile into the back of his truck. This company could just as easily hire 10 to 15 full time American employees, but they would have to pay each worker roughly 6 times what they pay the illegals just to meet minimum wage. So why would they? They undercut the honest companies only by a slim margin and reap the benefits(Although yes, this company loses a lot of bids because of what they do, they still pull in enough jobs to make hiring illegals worthwhile.). No one does anything about it. My family and several prominent people in the community have gone to the police and other agencies. But its to no avail. They just move the spot where they congregate and wait for people to come by and hire them for the day.


    Like you say, the solution is very simple. Putting the plan into action sadly isn't. Personally the only way I believe this situation could be helped is if a ABC Nightline/Primetime did a big story on it. Just saying that in itself is sad...which is why this whole thing irks me the wrong way......:grr: So many people want this to end, but yet so many people continue to facilitate it.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Actually, putting it into action only involves passing some laws that put massively large fines on employers of illegal immigrants and possibly revokes their licences. Give the INS some teeth. But there simply isn't the political will to do it because it is bad for business. Don't go to the police --go to your congressman. But I bet I know where his loyalties lie.

    Another option is to boycott businesses that hire illegal immigrants. But people will pay for cheap consumer goods and services, not for principles.

    The third possibility is for Americans to compete with the illegals --be prepared to do a slightly better job for roughly similar pay. I'm sure that most employers wouldn't mind paying a little extra to get someone legal who can speak English. Hey, it's called free market competition. Isn't that the American way? :D
     
    Last edited: 5 Oct 2008
  5. twentynine

    twentynine Can never win...

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    Haha. Tried that. Have you ever watched a show where one of the characters tries to contact a politician and all they get in reply is a "Such and Such is deeply interested in your problem. Such and Such feels it is a major problem in today's world. Such and Such is doing their best to solve your problem. Such and Such's plan to do X is along the lines of your problem, that is why Such and Such is a major advocant of Plan X." haha. Well let me tell you, you get the same type of response in the real world. Its really disheartening, but also a bit funny at the same time you have to admit.

    Its like you said though, theres always a second part. A "But" if you will.

    But, your last point would work if they were doing skilled work(Anything skill related is left for the full time employees). But when they get hired to nail/carry boards and mow lawns its kinda hard to do a better job. Haha, because lets be honest. A 15 year-old kid, or younger, could do that. lol.
     
  6. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    I doubt it. I was 15 years old once, and one of my responsibilities was mowing the lawn every weekend. I can remember how hot and tiring it was to mow a decent-sized lawn, and how good it felt to go swimming to cool down when I was done.

    These unskilled immigrants are mowing lawn after lawn after lawn. They do it quickly and for a relatively cheap price. Same thing goes for construction, really. It's easy to criticize the work until you actually hang a sheet of drywall, mud all the joints and then plaster every wall in the house.

    -monkey
     
  7. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit No longer the other Brett.

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    I find this most appalling, not that a Texan is lawfully allowed to use deadly force to protect his life and home, but the fact that the court after hearing all the facts found him innocent of murder.

    There are two parts to the story that I feel negate his claim of self defense.

    1st. He was not on the property at the time of the break in, and as a result was not in personal danger.
    To add to this he was advised by the police to remain outside and await assistance (an instruction he failed to heed)

    2nd. He lined up the teenagers making them kneel down only to then shoot the unarmed and already restrained thirteen year old in the back. At this point I would class the act as an execution.

    I dislike the the idea of having an armed populous, however I do defend the right of a homeowner to protect themself with reasonable force, this case however does not (in my opinion) fall into that category.
     
  8. LeMaltor

    LeMaltor >^_^

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    Mashed Twinkies and cookies can be quiet hurtful if thrown right, they were hardly unarmed.
     
  9. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Obviously not that funny, because you are feeling frustrated enough to vent your gun over the heads of illegals crossing the border. That's basically what you're doing. You are feeling (quite rightly) powerless and frustrated because your politicians won't act, so you take matters into your own hands. Except that the people you're trying to scare off are as much victims of the situation as you are. You're having a go at the wrong people.

    Doesn't matter. Either Americans want those jobs for themselves, in which case they can compete (let's face it, even if they did the job to exactly the same standard for exactly the same pay, they would be hired over an illegal immigrant), or they don't want to do such menial jobs themselves, in which case there is always someone more hard up prepared to do it instead. Fair do's. You can't blame people for being willing to do a job that you won't.
     

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