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Displays The 120hz :Discussion:

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Ta10n, 22 Oct 2011.

?

I have seen or own a 120hz screen and I can tell the difference between 120hz and 60

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    44.8%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    55.2%
  1. Ta10n

    Ta10n New Member

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    I could change the title to 3D and 120hz :)

    I've actually got the emitter and glasses. 3DVision is pretty neat, but it takes a lot of omph to run it. That said Starcraft II is ace in 3D (and runs smooth almost maxed at 1080 on a GT555M), along with a few other titles. That said it really isn't worth the performance drop in 50%+ of games.
     
  2. jizwizard

    jizwizard Well-Known Member

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    at the end of the day the title of the thread asks the question. not what is better. i own one and yes you can tell the difference. not what is better tech. most people know that ips panels spank tn but that is not what the op asked for. if people cant answer the question they shouldnt post in this thread. this is not a war between technology. i am getting fed up of people posting about something else when kit is not relevent to the topic.
     
  3. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    No one said that.

    People are saying that they PREFER IPS panels over TN. Because they PREFER better visuals, over smoother game play. Simple as that. People express their views on the mater. and they all said that they DO SEE a difference on 120Hz monitor, which answers the question.

    And my view, is that I welcome both... but I even if tehre was a good IPS 120Hz monitor (which is above entry-level, so that it fits my needs), I would still not jump on it immediately, as I assume also the cost of running the games are 120FPS (more power (in term of computational power) needed)
     
  4. bdigital

    bdigital Is re-building his PC again

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    so with the wealth of monitor knowledge here, what are suggestions for good high end tn panels? 24 and 27" ones.
     
  5. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    I would say the LG W2442PA
    -> 1920x1080 - 16:9
    -> Good view angle (for a TN panel)
    -> Very good gaming performance (actual response time)
    -> Full matte
    -> Adjustable stand
    -> Stand does not wobble, or unstable when adjusting the monitor
    -> Build quality seams to be pretty good, considering the price.
    -> Out of the box colors are OK.
    -> DVI, VGA and HDMI inputs.

    Monitor is 230-240$ Canadian/US.


    And now you'll understand why people here are jumping on IPS panels (This is JUST FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND why the big push of the IPS panels is happening here, nothing else):
    The Dell U2312 (IPS), can be purchased for ~270$ on special.. (I also saw it on special on Dell site at 230$). Normal price, it's about 80$ difference form the LG monitor suggested above.. some people can afford the price jump, some can't. Assuming it is on special the dell monitor (or could be found cheaper on retail stores, then the price jump is less) for 30-40$ more, you get so much more, by getting an IPS panel. That is why people here are like "Get an IPS panel".


    Forgetting about the above.

    I have personally seen and experienced the LG W2442PA (I have it at work), and it's pretty good. I could easily classify it as the high end of TN panels.

    I am going to put that monitor in my recommended purchase in my Monitor guide post.
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2011
  6. bdigital

    bdigital Is re-building his PC again

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    Thanks Goodbytes - I will include that in my research for a new monitor.

    What about 27" TN panels, any decent high end ones?
     
  7. Ta10n

    Ta10n New Member

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    Any specific reason you want TN, apart from cost?

    I'd just hate to see the rig in your sig hooked to a TN if you aren't cash strapped, or looking for 120hz. Especially when they're pretty competitively priced in the sub 24" range.

    For 27" it depends. If you're happy with 1080p res at that size I think Samsung makes some nice ones (Goodbytes can probably give you more specific suggestions). If you want 1440p you'll have to go to IPS (unless I'm mistaken). Also keep in mind that depending on the monitor the price difference from 24" to 27" can be absurd. I know on the Dell Ultrasharps at least it was $500 at one point.
     
  8. bdigital

    bdigital Is re-building his PC again

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    Its probably worth saying, im not 100% sold on either technology yet. The reason for asking is....

    Ive just spent the day at LITS looking at countless TN panels, ranging from 24" to 27" and some of them did look really good.

    So im thinking, would the better colour reproduction on a dell 2412/2410 outweight having a bigger 27" high end TN panel.

    Im just weighing up my choices i guess.

    I asked at nearly all the stalls if they had IPS panels on display for me to compare, and they didnt :)

    By the way is this any good? 27" IPS for £400? Got to be too good to be true i guess

    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/27-h...-2560x1440-420cd-m2-10001-6ms-speakers-pc-mac
     
  9. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Yea, many people ask me about that one.
    Let;s say that the only option you have is brightness... 5 level of brightness, which you switch between. Do you want me to continue on how much they cut everywhere to achieve this price?
     
  10. bdigital

    bdigital Is re-building his PC again

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    No its ok - Save your time bud :)

    I would be interested in the best TN and best IPS in the £250 - £400 price bracket i guess. 24" and 27" is where im aiming at.

    Im obviously leaning towards IPS, but it would be great if a) i understood the alternatives + high end TN panel options i have and b) I could actually see some of these in action before making what will be an expensive decision.
     
  11. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    keep in mind there's a difference between looking good, and having accurate colours.

    accurate colours doesn't mean it will look good, looking good is different to different people. for most people, slightly saturated colours will do the job for them.

    for example, non-colour managed program open a NEF file gave me great looking photos, very very impressive colours. but open the same photo side-by-side compare to a colour managed software, the difference is HUGE.
     
  12. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Yup, and no one likes to have the bad news that they don't know how to take good pictures, and/or need a better camera which might cost the same or more than their monitor :lol:
    (kidding of course)
     
  13. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    You can see entry level IPS panels in action at any Apple store (or any computer store that sells Apple products) looking at their iMac.
    The 27inch monitor, is the same as the Dell U2711 (same panel from LG), but the glossy version, and LED back light instead of the high grade CFL. (of course: Apple monitor aren't color accurate out of the box, there is no options beside brightness which is controllable with Apple software, and you are missing a huge number of inputs and features). The Dell monitor will be more color accurate using sRGB or Adobe RGB pre-calibrated profile, over Apple ones, but it's not to say Apple default settings are awful. The Dell monitor with a high grade CFL, will provide you with better whites a well. But it give you an idea, of how an IPS panel will look at.

    When you see them, notice the contrast, on how pictures "pop", notice how blacks are nicer and more defines. Notice on how colors that are close to each other, doesn't blend. Example: Look at the Ctrl+Alt+Delete Screen of Windows 7, and use the arrow key to navigate up and down the menu. On an TN panel you will most likely not see it, or barely, but on an IPS panel you'll see it more (although it's still light). Also pay attention at the sharpness.
    You can really see a TN panel deteriorate if you turn the monitor in portrait view... you will see the text will be more blurry, and as you move left and right... the image will change. Some TN panel even shifts color entirely, just by rotating the screen.

    Also, set a pure black screen, and boost up the brightness at about 50%.
    Notice how you barely see, or not at all (depending on the ambient environment light), the back light on blacks, but on a TN panel... you see this:
    [​IMG]
    Which affects colors as well.
    NOTE: There is no 0 back light bleeding monitor at the sub-1000$ monitor. IPS panels have some on all 4 corners, while TN panels is visible AT BEST at the bottom, at worst on all 4 sides, where the center is darkest. IPS panel has usually less back light bleeding. Of course, the more you paying, the less you have. PVA and MVA panels really can block the light on blacks, but you sacrifice performance A LOT.

    The advantage of the wide view angle, is that, let's say your computer is in your room. Well, the wide view angle, allows you to be anywhere, sitting anyhow, and change position while you game, without adjusting the monitor constantly. Remember that at the store, I know people that check those, only check by going left and right, which is pretty good on good TN panels... but as you sit at home, and change position, you notice you forgot about height, and this is where the bad news shows up. Or let's say you set up some pillows on your bed, to make it like a sofa, and get on there to enjoy a nice 1080p movie. On a TN panel, you'll see the back light bleeding on dark scene (but that has nothing to do with view angle), and you'll need to constantly get up, go to the monitor and adjust it, and get back there, and do that 2-3 times until it's perfect and now just don't move. While an IPS panel, you don't have to do anything. (also blacks would be practically dead black)
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2011
  14. mejobloggs

    mejobloggs New Member

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    I really want to try a 120hz sometime. Are there any good but not too expensive ones?

    Any 1920x1200? Or are they all 1080
     
  15. Ta10n

    Ta10n New Member

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    Depends on what your definition of expensive. Probably looking a $300+ for a decent 23"

    1920x1200 no. 1920x1080 yes. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge there are no 16:10 120hz panels.
     
  16. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    They are all 1080, all designed for Nvidia 3D Glasses, so their colors are over saturated to compensate for the sun glass effect of the Nvidia 3D glasses. So don't expect wow visuals.

    Remember that your games needs to run at 120fps to really enjoy the power of 120Hz monitor.

    There are only a hand full of 120Hz monitors: (prices Canadian)
    - Samsung S27A950D - 1920x1080 - 27inch - 695$
    - ASUS VG236H - 1920x1080 - 23inch - 500$ (Nvidia 3D glasses included)
    - PLANAR SA2311W - 1920x1080 - 23inch - 400$
    - ASUS VG236HE - 1920x1080 - 23inch - 350$
    - BenQ XL2410T - 1920x1080 - 23inch - 320$
    - Acer GD235HZ - 1920x1080 - 23inch - 298$
    - ViewSonic VX2268WM - 1920x1080 - 22inch - 220$

    And that's pretty much it (might have skip 1 or 2 models).

    As you guessed it, you need an Nvidia GPU and Nvidia 3D glasses to enjoy 3D.
    120Hz operation will work with any GPU's.
     
  17. bodkin

    bodkin Overheating

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    ^ You do relise that most panals have a "3d mode" which they use to counter the 3d glases effect? When running in 2d they look like any outer TN panel.

    The planar model I am using at the moment actually look pretty good, sure its not up to my old hazro 30in IPS, but the trade of is noware as big as people make out for things like gaming
     
  18. Ta10n

    Ta10n New Member

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    Indeed, they work as normal assuming you don't use 3D.

    But GoodBytes does have a point in that there is definitely a noticeable color shift when using 3D. Mind you it isn't that obvious, but it is there nonetheless. Just something to keep in mind for anyone wanting to use 3D with their 120hz screen.
     
  19. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Good to know. Thanks.
     
  20. Slizza

    Slizza beautiful to demons

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    Got really confusing thinking about how to detect all these extra frames if your eyes are so slow they show trails when you waggle your fingers in front of your eyes.

    I've been thinking about it the wrong way though, and perhaps many others are too.

    It's easy to see how extra frames above 60 would make a noticeable difference to what you see when you stop thinking so much solely on the fps and and images being flashed fast.

    What you actually see is a steady and constant stream of light into the eye.
    If there is 60fps being shown in front of you then that's what streams in, throw in another 60 frames to the constant steady stream and that's bound to have a effect on what the brain makes of all this.

    Saying that this is all theoretical and i do not actually have a 120hz screen to test side by side.
    Also perhaps i smoke too much weed.
     

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