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Motors The Bit-Tech Formula 1 2014 Thread - Season Complete

Discussion in 'General' started by RedFlames, 24 Nov 2013.

  1. Chr!s

    Chr!s New Member

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    Regarding the lack of exhaust energy/noise due to the turbo, would it of been feasible for the turbo to of been powered by 4 of the cylinders, while the other 2 provide full power exhaust and rear blown diffuser effect?
     
  2. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    This COULD possibly be engineered, but it would require two exhausts, reduce engine power (I guess to the tune of 20% - so by ~100hp, maybe more), and increase the packaging complexity/costs.

    In short: just for some noise? I don't think so.

    I also think that these engines probably sound substantially worse on TV than IRL. The guys that were there seem to quite like it, mentioning that it feels like the pinnacle of development, and the sound helps that.

    As once said by an engineer at Audi's LeMans team (paraphrased): Sound is a form of energy. If you hear a car that's noisy, you realise they're not getting that much from their engine.
     
  3. Chr!s

    Chr!s New Member

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    A couple of youtube vids I watched in the braking zones from Aus was rather disappointing.

    I think with some tweaking to the audio feed they should sound better, if anything just the commentary needs turning down a notch, and track upto 11.
     
  4. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    pretty much that. The sound recording needs to be adjusted... simples
     
  5. rici1241

    rici1241 Active Member

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    I think this really shows the difference in the V6 and V8 from a volume perspective. I do like the sound of the V6, but its far too quite.

     
  6. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Volume difference isn't that big, what changed is the frequency.
     
  7. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    They sound more like sportscars.

    I'm not going to get all hung up on that - I've always been a fan of the technology invloved in F1 as much as I am a fan of the sport.
     
  8. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    They're a lot quieter, the turbine and final exhaust act as a silencer versus the short cut down pipes of the normally aspirated cars, even if they were hitting 18k rpm they'd be noticeably quieter.
     
  9. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    I don't get the fuss over the sound or looks... Yeah the cars aren't the best-looking things ever, but I like the jet-like whooshing noise of turbos as the cars go past...
     
  10. Unicorn

    Unicorn Uniform November India

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    The Bit-Tech Formula 1 2014 Thread - Round 2: Malaysia


    The volume of the engine note has changed dramatically. It's running 3000rpm lower at full throttle on two less cylinders, and as fix-the-spade said, the exhaust is now being passed through a turbine and additional pipe work compared to a V8 N/A setup. Yes, the frequency has changed, but so has the volume. The overall dB of the cars as they pass spectators at full throttle is dramatically lower than last year. There is no more 'feeling' the engine note in your chest as they roar past because they're simply not as 'violent' as the N/A V8. I'm not saying I disagree with the decision to shake up the sport and make the cars more competitive and more economical, I'm just saying as I have been that I'll miss that insane V8 sound.
     
    Last edited: 18 Mar 2014
  11. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    I miss the V10s. We'll spend our old age telling our grandkids about how F1 cars used to have these things called engines which made a noise. Also how they weren't able to fly prior to the 2029 season.
     
  12. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Engine noise has ruined it for me. I didnt want to believe it until I watched a race, but it really has. I love hearing the crowd, the tires and turbo whistle but I feel deep inside something is missing. I hope they can fix it in the coverage mix - put mics closer to the trackside or turn them up on the cars. But since they aren't running full revs all the time as there's torque through the full range, and with fuel savings, they HAVE to run less than full revs a lot. So it's quieter + lower revs. I don't agree with the 'economical' drive of motorsport. It's a massive hypocrisy that it takes x number of times more fuel to travel BETWEEN each race than the race itself and while this hybrid system is a 'future' of car technology, the average Prius doesn't need torque-fill systems.

    Still, this year I'm a William's fan. Bottas drove a the nuts off it (well, the wheel off), and Massa will be on it next race. Good to see a nice mix-up of the field overall.

    Anyone else think Mags will walk all over Button? Possibly a Hamilton #2.

    Equally - if you enjoyed quiet racing. ITV4 will have more of the same! https://twitter.com/FIAformulaE/status/445591103467577344/photo/1
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18 Mar 2014
  13. glaeken

    glaeken Freeeeeeeze! I'm a cawp!

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    I've not been impressed with Button in any season I've watched ( I coincidentally missed his championship season and 2011). Perez started to walk over him towards the end of last season.

    Bottas and Mags did really well. Looking forward to seeing them both this season. It would be nice if Williams has turned it around, but still too early to tell.

    I also hope Lotus get their car figured out as Grosjean had built up quite the momentum the second half of last season.
     
  14. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Isn't Jenson's contract running out at the end of this season?
    I feel that (if that is so) both, Grosjean and Lewis have a shot at the seat there. Ron obviously would love Lewis back, but Lewis will be less easy to convince (especially since it looks like the merc is dominant).
    Grosjean on the other hand will be an obvious contender for the seat, what with 1) Lotus being behind the curve, and likely to play catch-up through the season and 2) Eric Boullier at McLaren.

    I really want Grosjean to be in an exciting team, where he can show that he has the speed needed.

    Button is pretty much done at McLaren, the way I see it. He's going to get walked all over by Mags this year (the exception being tricky weather and a few rookie mistakes from Mags), and McLaren is surely keeping a close eye on the pair.
     
  15. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Lewis will make more money at Merc. There's no reason for him to go back, plus, if Mags is really that good they'll probably want a pay driver to supplement the good driver to add money.

    It could also come down to whoever Honda wants in the seat too... (We could be getting a Japanese rookie?)
     
  16. RTT

    RTT #parp

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    Definitely no reason IMO for Lewis to be heading back to McLaren. Grosjean and Mangnussen (or Alonso if Mags doesn't turn out to be amazing) is more likely?
     
  17. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    That's Bo77as to you, boyo.
     
  18. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Not right now, no.
    If Merc fails to capitalise on the advantage they seem to have right now, though - he may be looking, and McLaren WOULD take him... that's my speculation.

    More realistically, though, I reckon Grosjean.
     
  19. Unicorn

    Unicorn Uniform November India

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    All very good points! We're pretty much on the same page... Well, it's not completely ruined for be because I know there's a lot of engineering porn behind the lack of noise, but as that comparison video that rich posted above so adequately demonstrates, it's much less of a spectacle now. Much less of an experience. It's like putting mufflers on the Space Shuttle (or cutting off funding, cutting the whole program short by a few years.... That's another discussion though). I'm disillusioned by the whole thing. On one hand, it's awesome that they've got so much torque filling capability out of the power units and that they're able to produce 760bhp and all that torque from a tiny (by comparison to the V8) < 2 litre V6 and include hybrid technology from two very different MGUs, but as I've said, the noise and the spectacle of an 18,000 RPM limited naturally aspirated V8 is now gone and with it, a lot of what drew me to the sport in the first place.

    The Honda V6 Turbo of the MP4/4 - the last of the turbocharged monsters from the previous turbo era - sounded ten times better than any of the current hybrid power units. Yes, by comparison they were much less economical and woefully unreliable (brand new 2 lap lifetime turbocharger and engine for qualifying, anyone?!), but they sounded so much better at WOT that they along with their drivers inspired the current generation of fans and drivers. I also think it's ridiculous that they've reduced the maximum downforce and banned blown diffusers completely. That was a brilliant piece of engineering and a valuable use of exhaust gasses. I agree that the formula has to have its limits, but I think this is one step too far. The next thing on the agenda is tyre blankets, so what's coming after that, a ban on slicks like in the early 00's? It's called Formula 1 for a reason, because it's the highest possible, most awesome tier of open wheel motorsport on the planet. I think they're taking a lot of the awe out of it.

    Just to demonstrate what I'm talking about, here's an '88 MP4/4 sounding great and not even being fully wrung out:



    As far as hardly ever getting to full throttle goes, Lewis himself said on the Sky Pad whilst talking through his quali lap that he can't get to full throttle or anywhere near as far through the gears between corners as with the 2013 car. There's just so much torque now that they don't need the whole box or the upper end of the throttle curve at tracks like Albert Park. I think this is what happened to Bottas when he had that "puncture". Brundle mentioned that he'd seen other drivers brush the wall there in the past and get away with it - I think the sheer torque (pun intended) exerted on that wheel when he snagged the wall was enough to break the bead and tear it in two. Last year's cars wouldn't have had the same torque on throttle at the exit of the corner and may not have damaged the wheel so much.

    I never even thought about looking at all this from your point of view in that it costs so much more to move between races than it does to run the car over the race weekend. Surely the FIA can't have overlooked that in the midst of all this and surely overall team funding has been capped lower this year to keep between race costs down as well? It'd be a pretty big oversight if that wasn't the case.

    I'd love to see Williams on the podium more often, as I think they're long overdue a return to the top end of the paddock and I've always been a "Williams Grand Prix Engineering" fan but I have to say, I think I'll be rooting for McLaren this season. As much as he's talked about in a negative light, I have a lot of respect for JB and think he's long overdue a good car to be competitive in and Magnussen is a promising addition!
     
    Last edited: 18 Mar 2014
  20. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    Just for the record Uni, blowing the diffuser is neat trickery but off-throttle blowing was damaging the sports (IMO farcical) "green credentials." Fuel was being burned even when toque demand was low (ie: lifting into turns) just to keep the diffusers alive. Works well and sounds like sex but the namby-pamby brigade was having none of it.

    As for the race and coming season - I'm hoping to see some magic from the "smooth" (eg: JB) and "adaptable" (eg: HAM, ALO) drivers given that these engines are so delightfully punchy. And of course, I'm jumping on the Bottas/Kev for WDC bandwagon too. Just in case :hehe:
     

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