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Blogs The CoolIT Domino ALC: low cost liquid cooling still has problems

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Sifter3000, 29 Apr 2009.

  1. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    Not so much give away a contest... But I, for one, wouldn't mind to receive a Domino. I promise I'll test it to bits for you (pun not quite intended... :))
     
  2. crazyceo

    crazyceo New Member

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    I've read nothing but positive reviews on this cooler and this review goes completely the opposite. Most recently Guru3D gave a glowing review putting it higher than the best air cooled alternative and some watercooled costing slightly more. Their tests showed some really good results.

    I'm sure after your visit from Barry things will be put right. Will we get an honest response if it does turn out that you have either knackered the thing yourselves or it does turn out to be very early developement model you tested.

    Most UK suppliers stock these coolers now so surely you can go and pick one up and start testing. I'm sure Barry will refund the cost if that model turns out to be pants as well.
     
  3. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    This isn't a review, which is why it's filed under the 'blog' section of the site. All of our reviews have scores on them.

    We pride ourselves on reporting things as we see them without any influence from advertisers or manufacturers. It's why bit-tech's sales team works on a completely different floor to its editorial team and has no influence in what gets written, when. I don't comment on how our competitors do things, but many manufacturers have told us that we're usually one of the toughest publications to please - some complain about us being 'too harsh', but we prefer to just not mince our words. We do factor in a manufacturers' pitch when forming our opinion to the extent if they tell us a product can do X, we expect it to be able to do that - there is no ponying to their wishes though: once the product arrives in the labs, it should speak for itself and if it doesn't, we'll tell you about it.

    To my knowledge, we've had three models - two development and one retail - and both have had problems. We'll be writing a review of the product after we've met with Barry to discuss (and show) our concerns. Maybe we've done something wrong, and if we have, we'll be the first to admit our mistake; from my perspective, there is no shame in admitting you're wrong and making necessary changes to your processes to ensure it doesn't happen again - the problem comes about when you're consistently wrong and fail to acknowledge it. That said, some of our issues happen to be with the product's design and are issues even before we get onto mounting and using the cooler.
     
  4. crazyceo

    crazyceo New Member

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    Thanks Tim S, that's reassuring as some sites wouldn't even acknowledge that. It's my hard earned cash I was thinking of spending on this product as I have no experience with watercooling and this was an easy toe in. I fully understand how you have to be ultra tough on products as one bad customer after a good review by you doesn't just reflect badly on the product but also you for recommending it.

    I can happily wait for the conclusion.
     
  5. naokaji

    naokaji whatever

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    No low cost WC solution will ever manage to do great, it is simply not possible for them to deal with the heat load of todays cpus.
    If anyone wants to prove me wrong, they are welcome to send me any low cost wc solution they want, if any sub 100£ wc solution manages to keep my cpu below the shutdown temp set by intel under 100% load for more than 5 minutes I'll shut up, if not I will continue to call them utter crap.
     
  6. Barrolde

    Barrolde uber cool

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    Dear Friend, I'm afraid your statement is horribly innacurate. I am but mere salesman however I am also rather technically inclined, especially when it comes to thermals.

    The efficiency of a cooling solution ie. its ability to transport heat away from the source and deposit in the surrounding ambient is a function of thermal resistance. In order to support your claim you have to have a working understanding of this concept.

    Here is a good place to start:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_resistance_in_electronics

    Water has a lower thermal resistance than metal, in other words.. it more readily accepts heat and for this reason is an ideal medium for transporting heat. Rubbish you say? Check under the hood of your car... aha! A radiator.

    In any cooling application you have essentially two components 1) a means of transporting the heat and 2) a means of dissipation. In a heatsink, heat is transported from a concentrated area (CPU) and spread out over a larger area where is can be more easily addressed by a fan. That is why Heatsinks are getting bigger and bigger. The Heatpipes serve to spread that heat equally over the surface area of the cooler. If you can spread the heat out well, you don't need to run a fan as fast to move it off the sink and into its final destination.. the ambient air.

    In a liquid application, the exact same logic applies... heat is transported via the liquid contained in tubing (picture these as over size heatpipes) and spread out over the surface area of a radiator which is essentially a heatsink for liquid. Thats why radiators have all these little fins, to increase the amount of places for the heat to live.

    The difference in temp between your CPU and the ambient air reflects the thermal resistance of the system. The lower the resistance, the closer your CPU temps will be to the air in the room. If you had Zero thermal resistance, your CPU would run at room temp (which is ideal). So in other words, the lower the thermal resistance.. the cooler your CPU will run.

    This is what we do, we engineer to reduce the thermal resistance at EVERY step along the way, we develop our own waterblocks, TIM, radiators, fans and controllers to deliver a package that meets a certain performance, acoustic and cost metric. In the case of the Domino the performance and acoustics (usually Bindi!!!) outweigh the cost which makes it a good value. Of course, the fact that it looks sexy in your case and has a 2 year warranty doesn't hurt either ;) If the science boreas you, just ask yourself... would we warranty something for two years that could not cool your Intel chip for 5 mins?

    Rant over.

    Just joking. We also have sealed liquid systems (Freezone Elite, Boreas) based on thermoelectrics too which actually have a negative thermal resistance. In other words, they actively transport heat from side of their surface to the other. That is how you get a component to run BELOW the ambient room temperature.. the resistance of the cooler is negative so in effect it is not absorbing heat from the source but actively withdrawing it so there is less heat there than in the room its in. Of course there are many intricacies of this art as well that I'll spare you of that for now. Later this year, we'll be trying to get those units into the Bit-tech labs as well.

    Listen, I'm sorry for the short novel here but I love my job and I love this industry so sometimes when people make sweeping statements like the above based on little to know real knowledge of the subject I take it upon myself to provide a little info on the subject.

    Long story short. You can continue to call them utter crap if you like but you would be wrong.

    Heatsinks work well, the Domino works well, DIY water works well... There are different coolers for different folks, its a big world guys :)

    -Barrolde
     
    Last edited: 30 Apr 2009
  7. Barrolde

    Barrolde uber cool

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    Hi Crazy,

    I could not agree more. As a consumer and a manufacturer, this is what I like to see as well. It kills me that they have had as many issues as they have but I am confident we will get past it.

    Regards,

    B
     
  8. badders

    badders Neuken in de Keuken

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    Barrolde, Please can you ignore the fact that you work for CoolIT, and post in more sections of the forums?

    So nice to have well contructed, well written posts.
    Not that I can claim to have any knowledge on the subject matter, but it definitely read well!
     
  9. naokaji

    naokaji whatever

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    There is no reason for you to claim a cheap wc solution could keep my cpu cool other than the fact that you work for CoolIT.

    Let's look at a review, here for example (it's not a CoolIT product on purpose, so you don't loose your job if you are honest).

    66C with a freaking dual core, so how do you think it would do on a I7 running beyond 4ghz?
     
  10. bullseye

    bullseye Who dares wins

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  11. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    think he was saying they found a way to reduce the thermal resistance where the liquid is somehow colder than ambient? maybe they are using a peltier
     
  12. tseax

    tseax < >

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    I've had a Domino for several months now (and I happen to live in their home city - surprised I was). I was initially disappointed with the performance of the Domino because it's (at the time) reviewed overclocking performance was NOT what i was experiencing. I mean, 50-degrees on an Intel i7 920 at 100% load? Really... Mine runs at 40-degrees C at idle and this is my second unit (replaced on warranty after a pump failure) and 3-installations later. After your third installation you won't find it difficult to install (Richard). At any rate, I find no further need to overclock (why bother?) and the unit self-adjusts cooling fan RPM which makes it a set-it-and-forget-it CPU cooling solution which works for me - the stock fan certainly did not.

    Greets to all you Brits from Canada!
     
  13. Barrolde

    Barrolde uber cool

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    I am trying to be nice here so please give me the benefit of the doubt. This is my life, this is my job... I know what I am talking about.

    Your statement is like saying 'there is no way a $5,000 vehicle can go 80km / hour' and then linking to a bicycle.

    I've made an honest effort to backup my claims and give you some facts but you seem to have already formed your opinion.

    I am sorry for making outlandish claims about our products when you have obviously just proved me wrong. That's fine... the only thing I worry about is having to explain your points to these people: http://downloads.coolitsystems.net/DominoReviewList.pdf

    Regards,

    Barry
     
    Last edited: 1 May 2009
  14. Barrolde

    Barrolde uber cool

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    Hi thehippoz,

    Thats kind of what I was saying. We do have products that use TEC's but the Domino isn't one of them. I was really just trying to explain how thermal resistance works so he could understand how cooling a CPU works.

    Perhaps I elaborated too far by throwing the bit in about TEC's at the end. I think that is a discussion best kept for another day.

    Cheers!
     
  15. Barrolde

    Barrolde uber cool

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    A couple of Calgarians meet in a UK forum haha.

    Go Flames!!!1?! :waah:
     
  16. alpaca

    alpaca llama eats dremel

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    do not understand me wrong, i have seen watercooling beating the crap out of aircooling, but in the end, i do not understand why. if i understand you correctly, watercooling (w/o all the TECs and stuff) is aircooling where the heat source and the heatsink do not directly touch each other. i fail to see why a waterloop with the same dissipating area dissipates more heat than a decent aircooler.
    i can see the advantage of displacing the heat in a small, low airflow case, but in a big nice high airflow case?
     
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