Thanks, I was rather pleased with it. I tried skateboarding once, incidentally. Never got as far as kickflips though. Absolutely no sense of balance, so I gave up before I really did break my ankle. Still waiting on the ratio of Labour-to-Tory lies, by the way. And why you think not having Cummings, Hancock et al involved wouldn't be an improvement.
You're going to be waiting a long time!! If you expect me to start trawling for every incidence of a politician lying, then you're smoking some heavy substances ;-) You know as well as I do, politicians lying isn't exclusive to Tories. If you want to counter that with statistics, knock yourself out!
The Tories have a majority, which due to the way UK politics works means they can completely ignore everything Labour says or how Labour votes. The only ones with true power to oppose the Tories are Tories willing to defy their own leadership.
Which I fully understand. What I don't understand though is the fact that Labour MP's have voted in favour of the government measures, offered no opposition to them and have brought forward no other suggestions. If someone asked me to vote on a serious issue, where I knew the majority would vote the opposite way, does that mean I should change my stance and follow the crowd or vote with a clear conscience and vote for what I believed was right?
I literally said as much in my very first reply to you, yes. The same reply you've now ignored twice in favour of "all politicians lie." Care to address the other points, if you can't be faffed backing up your primary claim with any evidence?
Back yours up then, give me stats that show Tory politicians have a higher incidence of lying. What date range would you like? If you're not prepared then don't call me out for not being so....glass houses much? You seem to be putting forward unsubstantiated claims/ opinions yourself.
You were the one making the claims, so it's up to you to back it up. Or, y'know, just address any of the points I've made. You've skirted everything in my reply bar "Labourites might lie less than Tories" three times now. It's almost like you're not arguing in good faith, here. But, if it'll help, here's a quick 'un for my side of the discussion: Investigation finds '88% of Tory ads misleading compared to 0% for Labour.' Your turn!
So you can make claims but don't need to back it up. but I do? Bit hypocritical there? I've not skirted anything. I've not disagreed with the points you raised. There have been lies told, there have been incidents of abuse of power, there have been incidents of total mismanagement. What I have said that all the above has happened with the Labour party when it has been in power. So I don't have any confidence that they are some sort of shining light in British politics, that holds the higher moral ground. I also don't have any confidence that they would have put Britain in a better position when it comes to Covid 19. We'd have seen one group of feckwits over another and nothing of substance from either. Clearly you object to this, that's fine. I don't agree with you seeming to claim that life would have been better under Labour. They are as useless as the Tories. It's really that simple for me.
The person who originates the claim has to back it up, but in case you didn't see it - I did add it in an edit a couple of minutes after posting, so you may very well have missed it - I provided evidence for my belief that Labour lies less than the Tories. Feel free to provide your evidence in return. You've literally not addressed the points I've raised. Tell me how having Cummings a million miles away from government wouldn't be an improvement? Tell me how having Hancock sat on the opposition bench instead of in charge wouldn't be an improvement? Tell me you honestly believe any given other politician would have been as at best feckless and at worse actively harmful as Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, with his well-documented failings - failings which began, I remind you, with a maskless meet-and-greet glad-handing on a coronavirus ward.
Dominic Cummings should be hung drawn and quartered, so yes I agree with you. I don't doubt British politics would benefit from that. Having said that though, successive Labour governments and its MP's have made some very questionable bed mates, can you say with any certainty this jiggery feckity wouldn't happen now with a Labour government? I have enough of my memory still functioning to tell me that there will always be fleas making off the relationships they have with those in positions of power. Hancock is a feckwit, pure and simple. But then again so are plenty of the Labour opposition feckwits, so I wouldn't expect there not to be feckwits in the front bench if it were Labour in power. The way you're posting it's as if you seem to think Labour would make any real and genuine difference if in power. I just can't see it myself.
So, you do agree that having a Labour government would have been better than our current Tory one? Fantastic. As above, that's just one real and genuine difference that a Labour government would make - and you agree with me that it would be an improvement. Earlier, you accused the Opposition of failing to bring anything to the table; so, I ask you, what are you planning to bring to the table? You're not willing to vote for the "loony left," that much is obvious, so what's your plan to improve matters? Vote Tory? Vote for someone righter-wing than the Tories? Not vote? How will any of those make things better?
I find it hilarious when right-wingers get uppity and the best they can do, in response to others, is moan about the "loony left".
No I don't agree at all. If you were to say that Labour would be no better or worse then yes I would agree. You've picked apart my reply to fit your stance. Except it really doesn't fit. And there would be some other flea to fill Cummings spot and some other feckwit to fill Hancocks spot. So no real difference, just a change of persons. I would vote independent. I'm done with mainstream political parties. They are stale, their policies never come to fruition because they'll drop them at the drop of a hat. That's when the actually do have coherent and sensible policies, something lacking in todays political world. Definitely not more right wing than the tories. I'm not some far right loonie, as much as some seem to be trying to imply ;-) In some matters I do align with Tory, in others I align with Labour. So some middle ground independent would do for me, someone with the courage to vote with their conscience not for the party line. I would hope that my vote counted for something, but I'm realistic enough to know that my vote won't. Our next government will either be Labour or Tory, we'll still have loonies trying to run the nuthouse, rats feeding off the droppings and the problems will all still be there.
I challenge you to find someone as actively dangerous and damaging as Cummings in recent political history. C'mon, I provided evidence for the Labour party being less likely to lie than the Tory party, you've yet to provide any for any of your own claims. Did you ever play with that website which shows you parties' polices on a range of topics, without telling you which party they're from, and you pick the one you most agree with? Turns out I agree with the Greens on almost every topic (bar, sadly, "***-*** nuclear bad ***-***," which means I can't really vote for 'em). Can't find it now, annoyingly - anyone remember what the site was? (Wait, the censorbot blocks you-gee-gee, like caveman-speak? Really? Huh.)
FPTP makes voting for any other party than the biggest two a fools errand, we would first need some significant reform of the basic system. What I would like to see happen: FPTP replaced with PR at every level. Strengthen local politics by leaving stuff that can be handled locally to Councils. Give England a Parliament (like Wales, Scotland and NI already have). In return massively cut down Westminster. Replace HoL with proper elected body. (And yes, I'm well aware no politician with a chance under the current system would dare endorse such radical proposals).
Blair/ Campbell? Blair/ Maxwell? Cameron / Coulson? Corbyn/ Milne and all the other pro communist advisors? By no means an exhaustive list of dangerous political affiliations in living memory. There will always be backroom players with more power than they should ever have, pulling on the strings of our politicians, unless we radically overhaul our political system. Even then I suspect there would be opportunities to be had.
I agree it's high time for that, how we still have a two party shouty fest rather than a PR system is beyond me.
No but that would be interesting for me personally! I've said it before in another thread, our political system is not fit for purpose anymore. It's a bad joke at best and downright stupid at worst. The two parties offer the world on a plate when its election time, fail to deliver and then blame the other party for that for the rest of the term. It goes on ad nauseum, like a recurring dose of the clap, regardless of which party is in power.
