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Graphics The GPU is dead. Long live the (new) GPU...

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by JTG06, 25 Jan 2019.

  1. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    So my GPU died in a horrid plume of acrid silicon smoke and I'm weighing up my options. I would value some of your opinions for a replacement.

    The card that died was an EVGA nVidia GTX 780Ti.

    My current specs are:

    Intel 4970K (stock speed)
    Asus Maximus VII Hero
    16GB DDR3 2400MHz
    1TB Samsung 840 EVO
    Dell U2913WM 2560x1080 @60Hz

    I'm considering the nVidia RTX 2060 or 2070, which are both a decent upgrade from the 780Ti. But given my older CPU and mobo, is the 2070 going to be held back so much that is makes the 2060 a better buy?

    I would consider AMD too, but know less about their cards.

    Thanks in advance for any help/guidance.
     
  2. Blogins

    Blogins Panda have Guns

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    Maybe checkout the PSU before investing in a new GPU. Was it an original Founders Edition GTX 780 Ti that died? If you bought it new then I would go back to the retailer and argue for a refund citing the sale of goods act.
     
  3. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    Thanks, Blogins.

    The PSU seems to be ok - I removed the 780Ti and plugged an HDMI cable into the onboard VGA and everything is fine (for now). That said, is it possible for the PSU to partially fail and still function to power the rest of the pc after removing the graphics card? i.e. if I buy a new card, plug it in and attach the cables from the PSU, could the new card be damaged by the PSU? I always thought that when a PSU dies, it dies completely (at least, that's my experience over the years!).

    The card wasn't the Founder's Edition. It was this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GPVKXD2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05__o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Btw, the PSU is a Corsair AX860i and I built the system back in June 2014.
     
  4. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...ess-graphics-card-11276-02-40g-gx-38f-sp.html

    Would get my cash. Mostly because yes, the RTX 2060 is capable of RT but not to the point it's worth paying for. Plus with that you get at least £100 worth of games to play on it, and performance is good. Cheapest 2060 I can see right now is £340 but is a nasty cheap model, nothing like a Sapphire.

    Dunno. If you want basic RT? get the 2060. If that doesn't bother you for the one game you can play? get the Vega. I've got a Vega 64 and I was pleasantly surprised by it. Sure, it's an air GPU so I can hear it (god dammit) but it does run games very well. Especially proper DX12 stuff.

    Ed. AXi PSUs were a bit dodgy. I would possibly consider RMAing that too (it should be under warranty still).
     
    Last edited: 25 Jan 2019
  5. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    The 780Ti is definitely outside of EVGA's warranty (3 years), but the AX860i is well within (10 years). But if the PSU had failed, would it still power the pc?

    I'm now using the onboard VGA for normal non-gaming usage and it's not showing any issues. But of course, it's not under any load when using a web browser. When the 780Ti died, I was running 3 Eve Online clients (output to one monitor) and that puts quite a load on the GPU.

    Edit: my one fear now is buying a new card and having it go up in smoke, but is my PSU faulty if it's running everything else fine now?
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2019
  6. Blogins

    Blogins Panda have Guns

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    My advice would be to claim with the original retailer under the sale of goods act (SOGA). Failing that if you used a credit card to buy the 780 then do the same against the credit card company under Section 75. Full details under this thread...

    https://forums.bit-tech.net/index.php?threads/pc-technology-buyers-guide-consumer-rights.217849/

    It's a dead GPU so there's really nothing to lose. SOGA is relevant for 6 years from the date of purchase and you can push for an equivalent replacement part if the GPU cannot be repaired.
     
  7. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    No. On several fronts.

    First: the Sale of Goods Act doesn't exist anymore; it has been replaced with the Consumer Rights Act.

    Second: the six-year thing was a maximum, dependent on how long an item should reasonably last. You buy a £500 handbag and the strap falls off six years later? SOGA applied. You buy a £5 handbag and the strap falls off six years later? No SOGA rights for you, my friend.

    Thirdly, after six months the onus was on the buyer to prove that the failure was the result of manufacturing or design defect rather than misuse, abuse, or wear and tear. Can't prove that? No SOGA for you.

    Fourthly, the retailer absolutely did not have to provide a full refund or equivalent replacement: after six years it was entirely allowable for the retailer to give a partial refund which accounts for the use of the item you enjoyed in the years before it failed. If it's an item that would only be expected to last for six years then that refund could well be 0%.

    But this is all academic, because SOGA isn't a thing anymore.
     
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  8. Blogins

    Blogins Panda have Guns

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    It's still relevant on purchases made on or before 30th September 2015. The GTX 780 Ti was circa late 2013 I believe. So SOGA still applies... assuming the card was purchased before the Consumer Rights Act came into force.

    Updated info here...
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

    Makes me sad when I read a post like yours Gareth. It's a common response that will typically put off an attempt at a refund or replacement. Takes minimal effort, so why not fire off an e-mail to gauge how a retailer or credit card issuer responds? Enter with zero expectations and you'll never be disappointed! I do urge you to give it a go however! :thumb:
     
  9. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    I'm not worried about the cost really - the 780Ti performed admirably for the 4.5 years I had it (purchased from Amazon in June 2014). I'll fire off an email to them regardless, as I've nothing to lose.

    My burning question though (if you'll excuse the pun) is what is the risk of my PSU frying a new graphics card? The pc is working fine now using the onboard VGA (I'm using it to type this) but obviously, I'm not using the 12v rails that supplied the 780Ti. I'm fairly confident the GPU had a catastrophic failure that caused it to overheat, rather than the PSU failing. There were no other signs of a surge at the time and my PSU connects to the mains through a surge protector anyway.

    If there's a high risk the PSU will fry a new card, I'd rather buy a whole new rig (a little sooner than I anticipated, but that's fine). I know there's always going to be a level of risk, but I'm wondering what you guys would do?

    The other question I had was choice of card - is the RTX 2070 too fast for the rest of my kit? If it is, I'll do some research on the 2060 and the Vega 56 and 64.
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    And it makes me sad when I read a response like yours, because "SOGA is relevant for 6 years from the date of purchase" and "you can push for an equivalent replacement part if the GPU cannot be repaired" are both wholly untrue.

    I'm not saying don't try it, I'm saying if you fire off an email to the retailer saying "this six-year-old GPU has died, you have to give me a replacement because SOGA" ain't going to get the response you're after because that's not true. Sure, fire off an email saying "I've had this GPU for six years and today it failed, I'd like to discuss my options under SOGA for refunding/repairing/replacing it as I reasonably expected it to last longer and believe its early demise is due to a manufacturing defect or design flaw" and see what happens, but if you go in making demands that the law doesn't support you're going to start off on the very wrong foot - and potentially refuse a reasonable partial refund because "the law says you have to replace it" (which it doesn't.)
     
  11. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    My approach to getting refunds is always to behave reasonably. I'm dealing with people (chat-bots, aside) and you're more likely to get a more favourable outcome if you ask, rather than demand :)

    Back to my PSU though - is it going to make my credit card cry??
     
  12. Blogins

    Blogins Panda have Guns

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    Either replacement or repair are not wholly untrue. Yes, partial refund is another option. Given the GPU was purchased June 2014 then this could easily exceed £100 with fair use thrown into the mix. If the GPU was purchased directly from Amazon and a credit card was used then Section 75 provides an alternative means to claim some form of remuneration. Again the statue of limitation is 6 years.

    There's template letters in the thread linked below, plainly stating a case for the claim...
    https://forums.bit-tech.net/index.php?threads/pc-technology-buyers-guide-consumer-rights.217849/

    Just scroll down to the second post. Let us know how it goes OP if you do make a claim! :thumb:
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You said the retailer has to offer a replacement if they can't repair it; that's not true. They neither have to replace it nor repair it after so long: the law is clear on that. The retailer, not the buyer, has the option to decide whether or not to offer a repair, a replacement, or a refund with usage value deducted. Unless six years is considered fair usage for a graphics card, or that you can't prove it was a manufacturing or design defect - because if either of those is true they don't have to offer zip.

    I quote:
    No. You can't. Not after so long.

    EDIT:
    Let's stop talking opinion and start talking facts. here's the Sale of Goods Act, which annoyingly has had large portions redacted 'cos they've been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act - but with a bit of fiddling you can pull up some of the missing stuff. Here's what it actually says:
    Lots of legalese there, but if you wade through it things are clear: you've got six months from the time the goods arrive to say "hang on, this is busted/unsuitable/whatever" and reject them; after six months, the onus is on you to prove they were broken when you got them. The seller, meanwhile, does not have to offer a repair or replacement if it is impossible or disproportionate to other remedies, and any refund due to the buyer "may be reduced to take account of the use he has had of the goods since they were delivered to him."

    Which is, y'know, what I said.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2019
  14. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    I'm really not worried about the old card though... I'm wondering what the risk is of buying a new card and plugging it into my PSU after the previous card died.

    I paid £527 for the 780Ti, 4.5 years ago - so it has cost me less than a tenner month. And that card did a lot of work almost every day.
     
  15. Blogins

    Blogins Panda have Guns

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    Believe I used the word 'push', let me check...

    Thought so. Anyway, moving on.

    Had a couple of GTX 780 Ti, wonderful cards! My first top tier GPU. Way back then I thought they'd be running Star Citizen. Fast forward 7 years and 2 generations of Nvidia GPU now I'm looking at the next generation pending Star Citizens release! :grin:

    If it were me I'd stick in an old GPU to make sure there are no PSU gremlins lurking about! As long as the rest of the system is tickety-boo under that PSU then that's some reassurance. Having said that I have a chequered history with one particular model of Corsair PSU...

    https://forums.bit-tech.net/index.php?threads/my-corsair-ax850-has-ceased-to-exist.220575/

    Very much looking forward to my new Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W PSU for a new build and forgetting all about Corsair!

    On the GPU front, there were some leaks recently about a new 11XX series of cards from Nvidia. From what I read it's Turing architecture without the bells and whistles. Google the GTX 1160 and GTX 1160 Ti for more info. Rumoured release of mid February so it might be worth waiting to see how those cards shake up GPU pricing.
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yes: and my now oft-repeated point, if you haven't got it yet, is that you cannot push for a replacement.
     
  17. Metaporic

    Metaporic Member

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    You could try an RX Vega 56 (or 64 if you find one with a decent aftermarket cooler affordably), they are going pretty cheap atm and perform very similarly to the 2060, and if you overclock them they match/beat the 1080. Mine runs completely stable at 1610/970mhz, undervolted. It hits 60ish Celsius under intense gaming loads with an ambient of 18-20c. So the card has a lot more in it and my cooling setup is pretty standard. Having said that they have no RT cores etc... and if you have the money the 2070 will still be the better card of the three even at stock.

    I would not worry about your processor to much especially as you are on a 60hz monitor. It is still a solid chip and you could always overclock it for more performance. While it might technically be very marginally holding the 2070 back if you are only able to output 60fps then does it matter? Check out the charts on this article https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...k-revisit-2018-benchmarks-vs-9900k-ryzen-more to get a feeling of the performance. It looks to be similar to the R5 2600 at stock in gaming.

    Re the PSU issue, can you get hold of a 'burner' card to try the PSU and 12v rail on? Maybe pick something up old but power hungry used on CEX - they have a decent warranty cover and you could return it after you have tested or resell it. You can pick up the Nvidia 570 for £28 or the ATI 5870 for £22.
     
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  18. Blogins

    Blogins Panda have Guns

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    Good video that talks you through the article.



    Really like the Gamers Nexus vids!
     
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  19. JTG06

    JTG06 Member

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    Thanks guys. I've plumped for an MSI RTX 2070 - I have a second pc that has a 1060 in it, so will whip that out and test it. If it burns the card, I'll put the 2070 in the other pc and start a new build. Better to lose a 1060 than a 2070.

    I used to build a new pc once every other year or so, but haven't done anything with my main rig since I built it in 2014. So in my mind, I'm long overdue a full upgrade :grin:
     
  20. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    The warranty on an AXi PSU is 10 years, so if you bought it new in 2014 it's still well within warranty.

    I think it would be worth your time contacting Corsair. Even if they take it back, declare it perfectly fine and send it back to you you will only be out the cost of posting it, but you will have a definitive answer on it's condition. As expensive as posting a PSU is it's less than buying a new one.

    Edit... and I'm late.
     

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