Other The iFail- wait sorry, iPad, is officially out

Oh please do tell me, Oh Great Guru Of Design how good case design could prevent the dodgy screens on many an iMac, or the bulging batteries on MacBooks, or the incendiary MagSafe connectors, or overheating iPhones.

Please also tell me how it would protect against leaking capacitors on circuit boards, because I'm sure many manufacturers would love to know that.

Not all hardware problems can be solved by improving the design of the case.

EDIT: By the way, "research" can say anything you bloody well like. For ages, "research" told us that fire was the result of a substance called phlogiston being released from flammable materials.

EDIT 2: As for your claim that "most repairs are due to accidental damage by users", please refer back to the report I posted before. I'll repost it again, for convenience.

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

1/3 can hardly constitute 'most'.

EDIT 3:

http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/macbooks2.html

More evidence proving your theory that "most repairs are due to accidental damage" is wrong.

 

No, I am saying that most laptop hardware failure is due to poor case design. This includes, but is not limited to accidents. The rest is wear and tear, accumulation of dust etc.

Failures due to manufacturing errors are rare. The overheating iPhone falls into that category. Leaking caps do too --there was a spate of them in the early noughties but that has since been addressed. Of course there are occasional hardware design or cost-cutting issues where inferiorly specced or inferior quality components are used.

The problems you keep raising are fairly rare. Batteries do not regularly blow up. Magsafe connectors do not regularly fail. I only know of one publicised case of an iPhone 3GS overheating. The vast majority seem to work just fine.

Research, as you say, is a variable beast. Not many people will admit that the malfunction of their device which indignates them so might have something to do with them dropping it. After all, they want to be able to RMA it under warranty. But also you cannot choose to take seriously the research that you feel supports your argument and dismiss as flawed research that doesn't fit your views so nicely.

In any case let's just agree to disagree, before this descends into mockery and name calling. Don't buy Apple if you don't trust it. I note that Toshiba turns out quality kit; you have choices. And choice is good, isn't it?

 

One thing I don't get with e-books. There's not supposed to be as much overheads or manufacturing costs associated with the availability of them, so how come they aren't heavily discounted? Some books you can buy new cheaper (e.g. Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol for £13.59 as an e-book from Waterstones is available for under a tenner elsewhere).

I think a music analogy works well as you very subtly picked up on it in your reply. I.e. having to re-buy your purchases and the fact that e-books could very well replace printed media as technology marches ever onwards.

I bought a Bebook for moh last April. The device uses e-ink and it's incredibly clear. The battery lasts for days. Storage space can be upgraded. I don't think any books have been bought for it yet as you can download any and all books by authors that have been dead for 70+ years. I think there's at least 1000 books on it.

 

seconded, by the way engineering and design are two separate entities, which are often intertwined.

 

Please do post a few links supporting this claim. It is difficult to take what you say seriously when you have nothing to back it up. I on the other hand have provided several links to verify my claims.

Again, it would be nice to see you do something other than say "Research says 'x'" without producing some links to show said research.

It's not the hardware I have a problem with. I trust the hardware about as well as I trust that from any other manufacturer. What I have a problem with is the evangelisation of the brand that goes on, this misguided belief that Macs are significantly more reliable than any other brand in the history of computing. It is Apple as a company that I don't trust, not the hardware.

 

Also not citing why the hardware failure would be of use, because pointing the finger at design and saying you cause deaths through something, doesn't give us enough information to prove me wrong.

 

there's been some nice little discussions resulting from the amazon.com vs. Macmillan debacle over the weekend, about ebook pricing. Mainly if ebook prices dropped significantly it would cut into hardback prices and currently its the hardback profit margins that allow publishers to take risks on unknown authors, profits on books are very low compared to music, and there is currently not enough ebook readers out there to counter balance the profit loss.

have a read over at Tobias Buckell and Charles Stross blogs

 

Oh, OK then. And to add a little piquancy to the debate I will start by quoting from the same sources you did:

So the main issues are mechanical wear and tear and issues of heat transfer and exposure to/protection from rough handling and the environment.

Even the Macbook Pro Reliability Study that you link to acknowledges the importance of case design:

It also mentions how design (and yes, engineering) problems can lurk in small corners:

As for the magsafe connector:

It further concludes:

According to the Gartner PC Hardware Reliability Benchmark:

Now on to the PEBKAC issue:

Not something you'd want to own up to to tech support, or even a survey, I'm sure. Also:

Now I'd like to go back to your SquareTrade report. The study was based on failure rates for more than 30,000 new laptops covered by SquareTrade warranties. It makes a helpful distinction between accidents ("oops!") and malfunctions ("#@*% machine!") and concludes that machines are twice as likely to malfunction than succumb to accidents.

My problem is this: the data is customer reported. To a warranty company. So how likely is the customer to admit that the inexplicable malfunction of his device was really due to an accident or careless handling? Drops do not just cause dents or bugger harddrives; they also dislocate heatsinks (particularly the bigger ones) and loosen contacts. We'd need to see something a bit more objective to know what was the source of the malfunction.

That's kind of your problem. I just examine Apple laptops and I'm liking the structural case design. I'm looking at my iPhone and see how well it shrugs off the knocks and drops it has suffered in the course of my busy working days. I see how my 15-year old watch does not have a single scratch on its sapphire glass despite it being knocked about (once so hard that the glass was knocked out of its setting and dropped on a hard tile floor. It was unscathed. I popped it right back into its setting). So I see the iPad, and look at its aluminium body with rounded corners and sapphire glass screen and conclude that this mobile device is likely to survive a few knocks better than some of the plastic netbooks that abound.

Oh, yes, did I mention the iPhone? SquareTrade did a study on smartphones too:

It also mentions:

The article goes on to mention that although the iPhone has the lowest malfunction rate, most of these relate to touch screen issues. It also raises another unexpected problem in, well, case design again:

Luckily that issue can be easily solved with a nice slip cover.

The study concludes:

 

and checkmate

 

OK, then why isn't Apple number one in terms of reliability if, by your own reckoning their cases do such a good job of protecting the internals? Yeah sure, you can argue that coming 4th is not too bad, but when their whole marketing campaign is based around how reliable everything they make is, you would have thought they would have made being 1st a priority.

It also says that they are uncertain if the unibody MacBook cases prevent or cause more hardware failures and states that a Powerbook 520 managed to survive being thrown against a wall from 12 feet away, something they doubt a modern MacBook could survive.

Also:

Not something that would happen with a "cheap, plastic laptop". Also, the casing on a "cheap plastic laptop" would be cheaper to replace because it doesn't have to be milled from a block of aluminium.

Good grief! A flaw in the apparently perfect case design of an Apple product? Say it isn't so!

Very impressive stats on Apple improving the reliability of their components but again, if you look back at the SquareTrade survey it shows that they have not managed to improve reliability enough to be top of the charts which, as I said should be their top priority if they are going to be selling their stuff on the "we're more reliable than everyone else" ticket.

Yes? That just says 'notebook manufacturers' in general, not Apple specifically. Nowhere in that article (Yes, article. It is a press release about the report, not the report itself.) does it state that Apple notebooks were significantly more reliable than those of any other manufacturer.

Again, brands are not mentioned, so no data there on whether Apple products are significantly more reliable.

You mean the one that has very little in the way of internal support?

I think that the tale of a 16 year old "plastic laptop" surviving a 12 foot throw against a wall has debunked the theory that plastic casing == easy to break.

Look, you're right. We could go back and forth like this forever and we'd never reach an agreement on this and I'm getting tired of this too now. You have your opinions and I have mine and no matter what evidence one of us posts, the other will manage to interpret it in a way that supports their viewpoint.

Let us, as you suggested, draw a line under this and call it a day.

 

I think not.

 

Why..? I still have the files.

 

Actually, it's marketing campaign focuses on user-friendliness.

Yeah, but we're dealing with facts, not speculation, right? Right?

No, a "cheap laptop" case would crack and break. As it happened, all the user had to do was bend the dent in the case back.

I would not attach too much statistical significance to a difference of all of 1.8% with the leader on that graph.

You wanted proof that case design and construction is a significant factor in laptop malfunction. I presented the proof. And I'm sure that a press release by the company who wrote the report can be taken as a fairly accurate summary of the report.

Stay with us. This is the SquareTrade report remember, which very definitely mentions brands.

Yeah, the one where the monocoque design made a reader report: "I've had a PowerBook G4 Titanium, two PowerBook G4 aluminums, now this MacBook Pro. This is the best yet. Build quality is solid — thinner, but sturdier, and the frame seems more resistant to twisting." That's the one.

Well, it was an Apple laptop we were talking about. One with an internal rigid metal frame covered in plastic.

Let's.

On a total non-sequitor: your av: Ulysses 31? Ace cartoon series.

 

I use a new white plastic MacBook at work.. tbh.. I'm not impressed with it's build quality. I don't see why it's any better built than any decent PC laptop.

I do think the magnetic power connector is a neat idea though... but hardly a purchasing decider or anything. It's plastic, and creaks alarmingly when I pick it up. I much preferred the old alloy Mac Laptops. I must qualify this statement by explaining that I prefer one type of mac over another in the same way as I prefer one kind of death over another. I'd prefer neither, but I work as a lecturer in an Art and Design college.... I'm sort of forced to use Macs.

I'm curious as to why they decided to have the USB port as a plug in extra... I'm baffled by that. absolutely everyone in the whole world will have their stuff on a pen drive, external hard drive... which connects with USB (or a memory card - CF, SD etc.. which it also doesn't have). Why make it more difficult? That lead is just something you're gonna lose.. rendering the iPad useless until a replacement can be had for Apple's no doubt ludicrous fee.

 

You've answered you own question. Why add it when you can have it as an extra that you can charge for, and know will be lost

 

One good thing will come out of this... many clones will appear, many of them with less limitations than this device...

 

That's why I said effectively, because if you lose that file, it would be gone for good. Obviously you could lose CDs as well, but not quite as easily. But anyway, the main reason I still buy CDs is just because I like to get something physical for my money, and I always will.

 

It seems likely a daily event now that new devices are being hinted or announced! Most sound crappy and the equivalent of 'speak and spells' compared to the iPad, but some ... maybe ...

If you check the help files or any advice regarding what to do with purchased music through iTunes you will see that it is recommend and advised to record your purchases to CD to ensure they are backed up. Thereby not losing anything.

I used to be like you regarding the physical aspect of owning 'stuff'. I binned all of my old cassette tapes, I gave to charity all of my VHS, I gave to charity all of my vinyl, my DVDs are likely to go to charity soon as well. I no longer buy DVDs or Blu Ray because I have SkyHD. My games come through Steam or PSN. Books and CDs are really the only things that I haven't been able to shed yet, but with the advance of eBooks and the inevitable price reductions on eBook costs ... it's just a matter of time. I find iTunes prices don't compete with CDs so I'm happy to keep buying my music that way, although I have bought some really hard to find stuff through iTunes.

Incidentally, I felt a huge weight lift from my shoulders when I ditched the cassettes, vinyl and VHS. It was all 'stuff' that if I was completely honest I would never listen to or watch ever again, and certainly nothing that I couldn't obtain again in the future at a negligible cost. I'm looking forward to ditching the CDs and books eventually and free up more room for ... damn ... no idea ... maybe I can get a smaller house then!

 

The keyword is decent. The Apple laptop is comparable to any decent laptop.

Don't worry; nobody here thinks it is cramping your style.

Granted, that would have been useful, but I also have mixed feelings about that. I have found memory sticks poking out of the side of a mobile device (like my Tablet PC) decidedly unwieldly, so I'd prefer an SD slot (seeing as you can buy SD cards that fold over to reveal a USB port). But anyway, the future of portable memory is wireless.

I think that the iPad will be like the iPhone: people will look at it and wonder what the fuss is all about. Until they use one. Then they will grudgingly admit that it is pretty good at what it does.

 

i still want a wider aspect ratio. I see everybody ignored my rational observations earlier