Rant The "My Apple rant is valid and informed 'cause it's got, like, eight swear words in"

Oh without a doubt do you pay for the half-eaten logo and the name. Just as you do with a Mercedes, a Hugo Boss suit and a Breitling watch

 

Whats wrong with boutique fashion tax? Do you never buy designer clothes? Do you only eat tesco value foods?

Secondly, I get weird feeling that most people find "discerning geeks" to be superior customers than your average Joe. The key to apple's success is though - it makes exactly what average Joe wants, and the things apple makes are enabling average joe's to get what they need done with little to no effort. That is what they pay for.

Not everyone enjoys having to spend lots of time fixing borked overclock, hdd, windows install, look for malware, spyware, whatever, keep track of critical windows upgrades, deal with hardware incompatibilities. Apple design a complete package and offset the cost of that by charging more for other things. I think it is a fair trade off.

Also, you fail to notice one thing. Apple products are fashionable because of the superior R&D. Apple wouldn't be much of a success, despite all the marketing in the world, if their products sucked, would they? I mean, their marketing presence is comparable to dell, blackberry or whatever brand you name (at least where I live), there's actually probably less Apple ads on the tube and around the city than for most big electronics companies, yet apple are so successful. It is just their super strict adherence to Dieter Rams' 10 rules of good design.

 

That's just a veiled way of saying that people who buy Apple products do not really appreciate what they are buying.

That's utter BS. Just like Gelett Burgess did not know anything about art but knew what he liked, the average consumer may not know anything about technology but they know what gadget works for them. And Apple products work for them. Very well, as it turns out.

While Motorola is still trying to work the kinks out of their tablet with its HD screen, Flash capability, SD card reader and USB port, people are happily buying and using the iPad, apparently totally oblivious to the crippling limitation that the absence of such features is supposed to impose on their user experience.

Perhaps Apple is not better at telling people what they want; it is just better at giving it to them.

 

That's a strange stance to take. What's right with boutique fashion tax? It doesn't make any sense to me that someone would knowingly pay more for something ONLY because it's fashionable.
As I said in my other post, if someone is willing to pay more for the other tangible advantages of particular product then that's all well and good; but it's self-deluding to think spending money on fashion-tax isn't a waste.
Unless someone is knowingly spending more for fashion just for the saking of showing off to their peers, but that's a whole other kettle of fish..

And for the record, no I don't buy designer clothes and I tend to eat whatever brand of food strikes the best balance between quality, taste and price. So, Aldi and Lidl mostly.

I think you missed the point when I mentioned discerning geeks and I don't think what you're saying argues against it; either. My point was that the majority of 'normal' consumers (ie; non-geeks) don't make their purchasing decisions based on the same technical details that geeks do; so I feel the fashionability or word-of-mouth endorsement of products such as iPods is going to be a much bigger factor in their decisions. Advertising and marketing play upon the mindshare of such people much more effectively.

I think this does a disservice to Apple's excellent marketing. Addressed further below.

Well, yeah, it is and I'm not trying to hide that fact either; but nor am I saying it specifically about people who buy Apple products. Most consumers are uninformed, that's just how it is.
Your post seems to imply that so-called 'uninformed' consumers are more informed than I give them credit for, because they are pleased with the product they buy; but that doesn't account for many people choosing Apple over other brands with their first purchase; or choosing Apple again after their iPod breaks down outside of warranty.
Additionally, plenty of people who buy Apple products and find themselves pleased with the reliability or ease-of-use might have ended up just as pleased with a competitor's product; but through Apple's marketing we've come to associate reliability with Apple products.

As you point out yourself in the next paragraph, they don't care for the technical details of their products as long as they 'just work' and Apple's marketing plays effectively on that.
It's something other companies fail to capitalise on, or they miss the mark; but that doesn't change the fact that there's more to Apple-tax than the tangible or near-tangible factors such as quality of design and reliability - I think you give too much credit to those factors in the purchasing decisions of the average; "I want an iPod" buyer who equates iPods to mp3 players the way some people equate Vacuum cleaners to 'Hoovers'.

The point I'm trying to make is that informed customers will buy or ignore Apple products based on the reasons mentioned earlier (Software, R&D, Support, Reliability, Design, etc); but you can be damn sure a huge number of people buy Apple products just because Apple dominates mindshare, word-of-mouth and fashionability currently - And because of that, Apple products are in high demand for more than just their technical or design qualities; and thus are more expensive.

If Apple products were less reliable than competing products (and some people will tell you they are - I'm not going to make any claims myself one way or the other) then some of their popularity might be diminished; but don't underestimate the power of Apple's marketing.

 

But Apple computer have all these issues, like any other PC's with any OS.(Well not the overclock part because like most manufactures, its all disabled. Beside that is a different story)

In fact it's harder with Mac's, let's say you want to upgrade your graphic card.. well guess what despite fitting well, you can't use any graphic card. It needs to be a special graphic card, Apple approved one, which only works with a certain Apple Mac Pro's and certain Mac OS version.

As for malware... your not protected either. All I have to do is a program that deletes all your personal files. There, 2sec to do, and I created a malware for MacOS. Also, I recall A/V software for MacOS. So it's all there... In fact it's worse as now the consumer doesn't even know he kind an infection in his system as he or she thinks that his system is invisible due to false claim made by people like you just did.

And there is no tracking needed for update in Windows... Windows updates itself automatically.

 

To a lesser extent though. You can't say that OSX has as many malware and spyware issues as Windows! Hardware compatibility isn't as good for OSX, but as long as you buy something Apple approved from the Apple store, it's going to work like a charm. You get less of a selection, but a better overall experience if you don't want to deal with getting stuff working. Valo was right on this point.

This has to do with how Apple's motherboards are designed, and normal video cards have been known to work. It's a bit random, but the limited upgrade choice helps keep the systems running very stable. It's a dream for the OS development team, you know exactly which video cards your users will be running. Plus, as I stated before, Mac Pro owners have shelled out for the most expensive Apple system.. Pretty serious investment, not sure if they'd be bothered by how pricey upgrades are from Apple given how much they paid for the RAM.

You sound like a script kiddie

Newsflash, OSX also has automatic updates..

GoodBytes, how much does your beef with Apple have to do with their choice to go with LED backlighting on the cinema displays?

 

Heuu yea, also they have a tiny market share, compared to Windows.
Mac OS is simply a house without any locks, in the good part of town.
I would prefer to get protection, then get an my stuff hacked due to a lack of it as I was ignorant about potential threats.

You don't become rich by writhing checks.

it's fast to do.

I never said it doesn't. He was assuming that Windows doesn't have one. I just mentioned that Windows has one. And as a business environment, you push updates on domain computers. But that is a different topic.

It's the glossiness darn it! You have to see to my work setup... I have the 22inch iMac, which was the only computer free, as no one wants it. I have to wait for the next computer upgrade cycle to get a new computer for my office. I have a 22inch monitor. I have the iMac turned on reverse pointing at the wall. And I use my 22inch monitor as my main monitor (the iMac screen is off). The cool thing with this setup, is that I have easy access to the USB ports.. as not I don't need to turn the whole thing every time I want to insert a USB plug (well I also have 2 USB ports on the monitor as well). And, by no surprise, I am using Win7 on it, with a Logitech keyboard and mouse, cause I want a num-pad. And the magic mouse makes my hand hurts. Yup.. I am happy with my setup.

If you wonder for the monitor, it's a 22inch Dell TN panel non-glossy (place of work does affairs with Dell and Lenovo, so we have both brands everywhere).

 

@Zurechial:

You've made a long post about everyone apart from the discerning geeks being mindless mob, that follows every fashion. Truth is, marketing is not only about advertising, but about creating a positive experience. If Apple's software, R&D, support, reliability and designs (all the reasons which in your view are unimportant for an average joe) were not up to par, noone would care about apple's products despite all the incredible marketing.

Apple products are simple enough and hassle free for anyone, that is why most people choose it over other choices. You claim to be a rational person, and I can assure you that most people are as well, they just have different priorities.

Most of my friends are not tech-savvy at all, yet majority of them chose to go with macs for purely practical reasons. They don't care about the system specs as long as their computer is fast enough for long enough - apple provides them with that. They get good battery life with their laptops, everything works right of the bat without having to worry about drivers (most of the time), apple provides them with excellent technical assistance should something not work at genius bars and the computers rarely need upgrading for an average user like them. In addition to that, they get way more solid build quality than most of the laptops, and an aesthetically pleasing design. It is nice to look at nice things around you.

I guess the cool factor might have had something to do with it, but thinking about it, if apple products were crap or complicated, I couldn't imagine them compelling so many people to stay with the brand. I've seen quite a few of them post on facebook asking which phone to buy, and there's always been people posting with rational argumentation. It is hard to beat arguments like "it is easier to use", "i like the messages on blackberry better", "it has better battery".

@Goodbytes

I haven't used windows 7, but I did not see my win xp or windows vista update my Nvidia, or ATi drivers automatically. Mac OS X gives you driver updates with the system. Has it changed in the newest release?

 

I agree with you, you make good points.

So, is similarly priced system on the PC market.
But i know where all this comes from... (well I said it already) basically a person goes to Best Buy or wtv big retail store, and ask for the lowest price computer ever. So they get the abomination computer, it's loud, it hot, it's slow, and it breaks within a few month and always are the repair shop, and repair takes forever as there is only guy fixing all the computer of the company, as the company cut costs to be able to produce such inexpensive thing. Then they are annoyed and go buy a Mac, and like like "WOW , it's soo good, so fast!". Yea.. it's good not because of Apple or MacOS, it's because you cashed 2k.

If you want a comparison, look at the Dell Latitude E6400.
10h and 30 min (or 21 hours with you get the slice battery in addition to the normal battery (second thin battery that you add at the bottom) of battery life, cool operation, quiet, super solid, ambient light sensor, eSATA, 4x USB ports, card reader, Nvidia Quadro NVS 160M (similar performance to what was sold in the similarly sized system from Apple back in the days), Display Port, Gigabit Ethernet, magnesium allow base and screen lid, 4GB of RAM, last gen Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz P series (or faster), wireless N, backlit keyboard. How much? ~1600$ Canadian. WITH 3 year warranty WITH 3 year next business day on-site service. So if their is anything they come to you at the exact time you want the next business day replacing wtv parts. Hey.. this is better service than Apple. I love it, and I can confirm to you, that this is a solid system and very high quality... and I don't mean "for a Dell", I mean.. I am genuinely impressed. My system, this November will be 3 years old, and I feel I can keep it another 2 years. My point is not that you get more for a PC.. I am not pointing this out.. my point is that if you SPEND more, you get a better system and service. In other words: You always get what you paid for.

You can't compare XP to MacOS X, you can only compare XP with Mac OS 9. You have to follow the same OS generation. Where the latest iteration was released in December 2001, about the same time as XP.

This is literately Windows 7, 0 exaggeration or simplification.
Assuming you install Windows 7, it's been 25min (or 7min from a fast USB 2.0 key). Now you are seeing Windows 7 for the very first time. You are greeted with a nice and simple looking wizard that will ask you several questions, such as date & time with time zone (BIOS clock/time will show by default which you can edit if it happens to be wrong), then it asks you for your account name, which at the same time fill the computer name. So lets say I put GoodBytes, the computer name will say GoodBytes-PC. I can change the computer name if I want to in the very same box. Then it will ask me for a password (optional), and if I have a wireless card it will ask me which network to connect and the password (once, unlike XP). And finally it will ask you about auto-update options. And our done. It auto-logs you in your account for the first time, and immediately, you have updates notification.
You do the updates (which will include the latest or almost latest drivers for your hardware) and your computer is ready to use. It's a straight forward process.
This was the experience for my Dell laptop, my old 2005 desktop (AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2.2GHz Socket 939, nforce 4 32X SLI, 3GB DDR1), my new computer (see signature), and several work computers.

The only drivers that you need to manually install, is if you have special hardware or peripherals, which is the same story for Apple MacOS X. Some peripherals will have Windows 7 auto-identify and get and install in that first update. And no it's not like XP where you need to restart your computer 20 times to get the latest update. Once only.. ok well twice now due to SP1 (but that doesn't count, as it's like if I say you need to restart your computer for the latest MacOS version update).

While MacOS, is choose you language, watch a 20min video that says "Welcome" in about all popular languages in the world, and ask you personal information such as where you live and all that, mouse setup (if I never used the computer, how do I know which mouse setup is best?!), keyboard setup, time and date and I think wireless if I remember correctly.. maybe 2-3 more questions related to accounts and computer, I don't recall exactly.

 

Sure. But to make sure that you buy such an excellent system and not the cheap ugly hot monster, you have to be a virtual computer expert who knows what all those specs mean that you rattled off, and make sure that they are included. Or, you could, you know, just walk into an Apple shop and buy one of theirs, off the shelf, and just know that you are getting a quality product.

Actually you can. OSX came out four months before XP (24th April 2001 vs 24th August 2001). It was OSX that prompted Microsoft to run to the Iconfactory (a company which normally designs icons for Mac software) to spruce up the look of XP. Otherwise it would still have looked like Windows 2000 or Millennium.

 

You got owned by Apple. lol

 

One of my concerns was the restructuring of websites for IOS.

The whole Flash thing meant bunches of sites were recoded.

With the market share driving the need for non flash/java websites I didn't like the idea of apple protectionism changing the content available to me.

But as Android sales are higher then iOS, the need for the wholes sale abandonment of java/Flash is reduced. And the android pricepoint is only going to make this more apparent.


The whole game apps thing seems a bit daft to me. Nearly every app is available as a flash game.
charging for content you can get for free seems daft...

 

Many people will buy it anyway.

 

I think that's the problem in a nutshell. Apple do frequently made decent products, but they don't sell because they're decent products - they sell because people go 'oooh, shiny!'. So, a plea to Apple fanboys:

please, please, don't buy a product based on its aesthetics and pop culture appeal and then tell enthusiasts who care primarily about quality and performance that it's the best out there.​

Does that about sum up the running sentiment?

 

It seems to me that if you're shopping primarily at Aldi and Lidl, you place an unusually high premium upon price as opposed to taste or quality (or ethics for that matter, though that's another argument). People that primarily stress what things cost are not likely to be Apple buyers because, because they feel they can get things cheaper - not better, just cheaper - elsewhere. It seems that what you want in a product and what the majority of Apple's consumers want are separated by modes of thinking, not just the odd £10 note.

Obviously once a consumer concludes that a product is aesthetically pleasing, he is incapable of analysing whether it is 'decent'.

I don't know that anyone is saying they're the 'best out there', for performance or otherwise, without a reasonable reason for doing so. Even the much-vaunted 'Photoshop advantage' of-uncertain-provenance has more or less disappeared from Apple's marketing, hasn't it? Apple do make a few products that are leaders in their sector; for example, I cannot think of a better tablet at the moment than the iPad, a product whose very existence is something of a personal grievance, and if pressed to name the 'best tablet out there' would reluctantly conclude that it was the iPad. Raw performance is not Apple's strong suite; ease of use and quality are. If those are of interest to the consumer - and they usually are - they're a solid basis for recommendation and might well make an Apple product the 'best' for that particular need. If you're a performance enthusiast who thrives on ATI drivers and original Sandy Bridge chipsets, feel free to suggest something else?

 

The advantage of an app is that you can play it anywhere, anytime. Flash-based games require internet access.

Possibly, but it is a conceited one. We've now gone from "Apple products are crap and Apple users are sheep for buying them" to "Apple products are good but Apple users are still sheep because they don't buy them because they are good, but because they are sheep". Yah, nice circular reasoning there. Ever think of joining a religion?

QFT.

 

And THAT is a rant. None of that itty bitty "oh my god what should I do with a girl" or "I think someone did me wrong today but I was too pansy to actually do anything about it and now I tell people in the forums what happened"-malarkey.

Rest of the thread: TL;DR. The first post wrapped it all up nicely.

 

you have to admit, converting mp3's for the ipod is not exactly user friendly.. I use zune myself

the biggest thing with ipad is no flash.. sure you can play plants vs zombies- but what if you want to go on kongregate and get some games for free

you download the swf and play offline anytime.. but that's not really the big downside.. it's a lot of web content uses flash- it's really silly imo not to add it..

osx snowleopard is basically ubuntu.. it's not bad at all- but they tie it to hardware.. so they pretty much screw their own customer base

you can't just upgrade to the latest os with apple like you can with windows.. you can stick windows 7 on old rigs if you want

 

I knew it'd be a mistake to mention Lidl and Aldi; and I think you're assuming a lot about my spending habits.
I eat the food from Lidl and Aldi that I like (some of it is actually very high quality, or better than what's on offer from M&S, Tesco, Dunnes Stores and other supermarkets here), while it often has the benefit of being cheaper - Just as I'd rather buy components and build my own rigs that outperform more expensive pre-builts from companies such as Dell or Apple.
If I save money and get a better product for my money, then it's a win-win situation and I can both have my cake and eat it. And sometimes that cake is from Aldi and tastes better than the one from M&S.
I'm sure there are people who focus solely on the price as you suggest, but don't assume that people who factor price highly in their decisions are doing so always at the expense of quality.

You're starting to respond a bit defensively about this and extrapolating to unfair extremes; which isn't like you.
I think the point that's being made is that the 'shininess' of Apple products and their popularity is a major factor for many purchasers; not that anyone who buys an Apple product is necessarily a sheep or a victim of said shininess.

There are people who buy Apple products because they feel those products are better than the competition. There are people who buy Apple products because they are shiny, fashionable and backed-up by fanboy doctrine. These are not necessarily the same people.
The above statements can be made regarding almost any popular consumer brand; but Apple have very effectively and intelligently exploited their boutique status in their own marketing for years now; which is precisely why this entire discussion and the thousands of discussions/flamewars over Apple exist today.

This happens with everything from Apple products to graphics cards to free software; people are often swayed by factors other than the tangible, qualitative differences between one product and another; and these other factors are often down to promotion, marketing and social trends; and are not necessarily directly related to the quality of the product in question.

 

Personally I find the less Microsoft drivers present on a system, the better, especially if we are talking graphics and sound drivers.