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Motors The Official bit-tech F1 2010 Thread - Post season washup

Discussion in 'General' started by alastor, 22 Dec 2009.

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  1. snooky32

    snooky32 Member

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    They already moved the mirrors closer in to the driver in the last few races. After Vettel sneaked up the inside of Webber on the 1st corner in Malaysia in fact.

    Don't think mirrors are the problem here, just this culture of trying to scare other drivers off the road
     
  2. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how having the McLarens all over the back of Red Bull is evidence for the claim that only Red Bull can keep themselves from the Championship. Seems to me to be evidence that Red Bull's performance gap is being closed down.

    As for the Webber/Vettel incident I'm in two minds, think Vettel was overambitious with his move but also think that Webber should have kept in mind that the number one rule is don't do anything to take your team mate out and should have yielded some space.
     
  3. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    The replay clearly showed that Web moved WAY off the line for Vettel. Vettel had all four wheels on the tarmac and was already lining up for the left hander. Then he just decided to swing right.

    The key is not what Vettel did, it's what Webber did. Clearly, he knew he was being overtaken, and he left what he thought was enough space (so did Martin Whitmarsh and David Coulthard). Tough luck to Vettel if he decided he wanted more space.
     
  4. D-Cyph3r

    D-Cyph3r Gay for Yunosuke

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    Absolutely. I'd struggle to contemplate how anyone could interoperate it any other way.


    I think Vettel knows he was in the wrong as well, the replay after him walking away from the car and doing the crazy finger gesture to the side of his head is kinda telling....
     
  5. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

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    By actually watching the race and noticing what was going on? Neither driver was completely blameless in the incident.

    The only thing it was kinda telling about was that Vettel thought Webber was crazy.
     
  6. D-Cyph3r

    D-Cyph3r Gay for Yunosuke

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    We couldn't have been watching the same race....


    As stonedsurd said Vettel had all the space he needed, with all 4 wheels on the tarmac. Webber had absolutely no reason to move once Vettel's nose had passed his, neither did Vettel, but he did and it cost the team alot of points.

    Even in the post race press conference you could see Webber hand gesturing to Hamilton and he shows the exact same thing, Vettel coming up fast on the left, himself sticking true and Vettel swerving right.

    Webber is categorically un-blameable in this incident.
     
  7. snooky32

    snooky32 Member

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    Ok fair point but I feel this is just the latest in a series of screw-ups, if they'd capitalised on their performance advantage before McLaren caught up they would be hard to beat at this stage in the championship.
     
  8. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Not drift right for no reason, To force my opponent out wide. Even its a legit tactic
     
  9. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    And Vettel clearly stated he 'lost the car'.

    What more do you need, for him to say "I don't like Webber and I was being a douche."?
     
  10. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

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    From all indications it appears that Christian Horner and Dr Helmut Marko have been telling journalists that they're of the view that it was Webber's fault. So perhaps not as categorically unblameable as you think.
     
  11. 13eightyfour

    13eightyfour Formerly Titanium Angel

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    I dont understand how they can come to the conclusion that its webbers fault, the gap between webber and the edge of the track (the tarmac vettel was in) never got any shorter and if vettel had of just stayed hugging the inside of the track he would have been fine (assuming he didnt really lose the backend)

    The only reason i can see them blaming webber is maybe because he should have moved right and given in for the benefit of the team. But you know what, I watch F1 to see races like todays, i dont want to sit down and watch a load of pussys getting out each others way because the car behind is faster!
     
  12. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    This.
    In my eyes vettel was far enough ahead for webber to be forced to pull back for the good of the team. He was slower as shown by previous laps so no point feeding Vettel to Hamilton. This was a rare circuit where overtaking could happen and conditions and circumstances allowed it. Don't get me wrong here, I love Webber as a driver, certainly more than Hamilton, Alonso and Schumacher even tho I would regard them as "better" drivers. If I was two different teams rather than team mates what would your views on it be?
     
  13. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Great Race, and GO LEWIS!
    I knew Turkey would turn things around a bit, and clearly, McLaren have the pace to do so now.

    As for "the move" of the RBR's:
    I think they were both wrong. To me it didn't look like Webber was on the racing line to start with. I'd reckon the racing line is further right. He was driving in fuel save mode (thanks in part to Lewis haunting him for a large chunk in the beginning, no doubt), and on the defense line.
    Vettel pulled a move down the INSIDE. He had the nose in front, and logic would dictate that the driver behind does the courteous thing and makes some room. Not doing so would be reckless.
    Vettel then tries to line up for the corner, knowing that he can't take it from that far inside. He moves right, and didn't think that his back was still next to Webber's car.
    Webber, on the other hand, stayed on the defense line, knowing that from that far inside, Seb would have to brake hard for the corner, and he'd be past seb again.

    The way I see it, it's a bit chicken and egg.
    One was being a jackass for not moving, the other for being naive.
     
  14. theevilelephant

    theevilelephant Well-Known Member

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    Good race, shame about Vettel/Webber incident. I think that Vettel shouldn't have expected Webber to yield and give him all the space he wanted, on the other hand I don't think Webber should have expected Vettel to give up that inside position so easily. At the end of the day I think it's more Vettels fault than Webbers if he thought he was so much faster he should have backed off and had another go later on.

    Anyway all this is easy to discuss when you're not sitting in a car doing 120mph.

    edit: why did Hamilton sound so utterly dejected during the interview?
     
  15. sesterfield

    sesterfield New Member

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    I wonder if it's one of two things; Either he's disappointed that he was unable to pass the Red Bulls on track (though he was bloody close before the pit stops!) or I think he might have been a bit pissed at Button for having a go while they were supposed to be fuel-saving.

    Or maybe he's just got bored of winning :D
     
  16. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    I think there was some confusion between the drivers. Jense coming past like that was unexpected, as Lewis was in fuel-saving mode. Then after the race, I think they were discussing WTF was going on (there was that scene on TV of them talking), and after that they both didn't look too happy.
     
  17. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Any news on the tires? will we be getting a single manufacturer next year or will their be multiple?
     
  18. alastor

    alastor Well-Known Member

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  19. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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  20. genesisofthesith

    genesisofthesith complete spanner

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    Jenson was saving fuel from lap 20 in a more modest fasion, Hamilton started saving "3 laps before" the overtake(delayed message shown on lap 44) - and thus had a more aggressive fuel saving target.

    Jenson was surprised with Lewis going quite so slow, and did what any racer would have done and taken advantage of the situation.

    Both cars were saving fuel at that point, but Lewis much more agressively hence the lower speeds - perhaps he didn't expect Jenson to go for an overtake, but if it was anyone other than his team mate he would have had to push harder.

    After Jenson got past, Lewis retook the lead, and then they were both told emphatically to save fuel or the situation would be critical - this is the more obvious 'back off, hold station' order.

    There are a few ways to read the situation:

    1:McLaren slowed Lewis to benefit Buttons attempt at an overtake.

    2:McLaren slowed Jenson after Lewis retook position, even though Jenson wasn't quite as critical on fuel as Lewis, to ensure both cars finish without taking each other out. Benefits Lewis.

    3: Differing fuel saving strategies (Jensons more measured fuel saving throughout race versus Lewis' more drastic saving towards the end) coming into play which afforded Jenson an extra push. Completely fair.

    Personally I believe it was a mix of option 3 leading to the pass, and option 2 after Lewis retook position to ensure the drivers don't take each other out. No real bias, just a case of differing strategies playing out, then the team telling them to bring the cars home safely.

    Had Jenson made the overtake stick, I think he would have had the extra fuel to pull ahead slightly, but as he he couldn't hold it, it wasn't worth risking both him and Lewis finishing the race - he had his shot, then had to play the team game.
     
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