Motors The Official bit-tech F1 2013 Thread

I wonder if that has a major impact on the performance of the RB? It would explain why Newey had his head in his hands during the race.

 

I agree 100% with you on that, Krikkit.
The WDC isn't done yet, and a lot can still happen.

And next yer should be fun to watch.

One thing I couldn't help but wonder yesterday is why they try to strategy-manage the drivers at times. Specifically, it became clear again that Lewis Hamilton is at his best when the "red mist" sets in, and he is about to drive the wheels off his cars.
Surely, it'd make sense to BRIEF him on what the strategists think, and ask him how the weekend should be approached. Essentially, give him two options:
1) You drive to a strategy
2) You just drive. Tell us when your tyres are going, and we'll let you know when you're on your penultimate set of rubber...

 

For the tyre question, btw, here's what the inside of the apex kerb that several drivers were over-running looks like:


Not surprising there's a few failures if you squash an under-pressured tyre against it at 150mph.

 

Not disagreeing with you, but it would be good to see some other kerbs to put that into context.

For all we know that is pretty standard? (I do agree it looks rather sharp and very likely to cause problems such as massive blow outs)

Also, was this not picked up by the stewards inspection? Its quite a large thing to miss?

 

In my experience (having walked several GP tracks), that kind of kerb isn't necessarily unusual, but they're generally only that large (and with a better edge radius) on slower corners where the drivers won't cut it quite so much.

IMO there should have been a much flatter, smoother-edged kerb with some of the higher bumps/lumps to discourage cutting, similar to this one or this one at Monza.

ETA: To clarify, I think these incidents point to the construction of the tyres being a bit weak to this kind of damage, but I also think the bandwagon of it being Pirelli's fault entirely is over-done.

 

We went on General Admission tickets, and managed to get a spot just after Club, right opposite the podium.
Took my little camera, and managed to snap over 750 photos.
The best series was this one, with Vettel's "Walk of Shame"...

 

I agree with what your saying, its more to do with the likes of Lotus who pushed against Pirelli's planned changes to the construction of the tyre.

But, you could argue that if Pirelli knew that their tyre was weak to certain types of stresses (which I assume they did, given that they tried to change its construction), they should have made a bigger fuss over it than they did. It will be interesting to see what changes are made in time for Germany.

 

Just been watching one of the sky clips, and generic Sky presenter #217 was commenting on how in previous races, when the tyre has de-laminated, there was a steel band under the tread, keeping the tyre [relatively] in one piece, whereas at Silverstone no steel bands...

here is the page, it's the 3rd clip [may not work outside the UK]

 

DC mentioned that during the race coverage on the BBC. Someone's tyre had delaminated during another race but the steel banding held the carcass together - whereas these ones just exploded.

It might not look like much, but I bet it's thoroughly unpleasant driving into a cloud of tyre lumps at 140+ mph.

 

Driving through a cloud of anything at 100+ mph is not going to be fun...

 

I am going to go out on a limb here (Facts are few and thin on the ground about this right now), and say that this ISN'T a standard delamination.
Between the kerbs and the suspected camber/under-inflation issues, the sidewall (out rather inner-most edge of the tyre) probably got damaged on those kerbs. Possibly JUST off the steel banding, thus causing the complete blowouts we saw.

They're also not all the same, looking at how Lewis's carcass stayed on along the outer edge of the car, even missing the floor, whereas everyone else (especially visible on the STR) took floor damage because the carcass "swung around" further inboard.

 

Driving through a cloud of helium could be fun at any speed. Imagine the radio transmissions.

 

I'd guess that while the kerb might be the cause of the tyre failures this weekend, the kerb would never have been a problem if the tyres were better constructed.

This year's tyres have a squarer profile (for a wider contact patch) and steel belts (for better resistance against slow punctures and deformation at high loadings) versus the rounder kevlar belted tyres of 2011-12.

The 2012 tyres would wear unevenly towards the inside edges, the tread could also deform unpredictably through the race, this year the tyre's tread is much more rigid specifically to prevent that.

That seems to have placed load that was previously being spread thought the entire carcass of the tyre into the side walls. The squarer profile also seem to mean that where tyres were hitting tread first and deforming round objects like those kerbs before, now they are hitting them corner or sidewall on at the most heavily loaded points.

If those kerbs had taken out a load of Porsches or GP2 cars too it would stand to reason they're the problem, but they didn't. They didn't take out a load of ELMS cars earlier this year or any F1 cars in the four previous British GPs they've been there either.

It strikes me that the kerbs being brought up is attempting to ignore the issue that the tyres are badly designed, because the FIA/teams gave Pirelli an impossible spec. Even then it's the team's stubbornness that has created this situation, Pirelli had revised spec tyres ready to go but the rules as they stand allowed Lotus to block their use.

Pirelli need to kick the teams and FIA into touch. Sporting regs or not they have a monopoly and can dictate what's available (with safety as their catch all justification), they should bring a new (or older) spec next time and tell any teams that don't like it to try racing without any tyres at all.

 

http://pitpass.com/49406-Pirelli-to-be-allowed-further-testing

Bernie & Todt are a joke, and if they indeed are going to do this then Mercedes should appeal the verdict right now, right there.

In place of Pirelli i would now make a superhard, never degrading tyres just to kick back at FIA. FIA can't have any other tyre supplier for 2014 (EU tender rules) and in my opinion Pirelli is tired of all this, so they want out ASAP.

Or just simply do the test with Mercedes too, to show a middle finger to FIA.

 

I thought they were running the same construction as previous races here, steel belt and all, Pirelli certainly hadn't mentioned the removal of steel and some of the blow outs left awfully large solid lumps of tyre flying through the air.

Also some of the drivers have been complaining about getting hit the face by chunks of tyre that were full of metal, which must be deeply unnerving.

 

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/01/f1-fanatic-round-up-0107/#commentoftheday

This comment sums up my feelings.

Safety is the primary concern.

Just a couple of years ago, Massa was very lucky to survive a high speed meeting with a 1kg spring from the back of Barachello's Brawn GP car. I dread to think what would have happened if someone got hit with a 6kg tyre carcass at somewhere north of 160mph. Raikonnen and Alonso were both very lucky in that respect. And, if you haven't noticed, a flapping tyre carcass is a trifle less aerodynamic than a spring.

As Hamilton said in his interview, (paraphrase) "they're only going to do something if someone gets seriously hurt"... I don't think the FIA is taking that attitude (nor is Pirelli or the teams, after what happened at Silverstone) but the comment he made was in relation to the previous possibly related, possibly unrelated tyre delaminations that was supposed to bring about some changes to the tyre construction.

Last race, a marshall died.

Yet at Silverstone, there were several unpunished unsafe pitstop releases as well as drivers seemingly ignoring yellow flags and such.

I'm all for tracks with barriers close to the edge of the track like at Le Mans, the Nordschleife, Monte Carlo, Montreal, etc and for high-speed tracks like Silverstone... The faster, balls-to-the-wall tracks separate the men from the boys and they bring out the best in racing drivers. (edit: this is a great example of balls-to-the-wall driving around the Nordschleife in the rain... in the dark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heWOSQ5dUB0)

But there are basic points of safety that should be expected of all involved. Things like tyres being safe. Teams/drivers not being deliberately unsafe - aggressively defensive driving (Schumacher almost pushing Barachello into the wall, multiple movements before entry to a turn, etc), unsafe pitstop releases, ignoring marshalls' flags, and such. Motorsport is dangerous and while they can't prevent every accident, they can go some way to preventing most of them.

 

http://www.fia.com/news/fia-seeks-solution-silverstone-tyre-failures

FIA looking for a solution:

- Silverstone YDT will allow teams to field race and/or test drivers if it is to help Pirelli test new tyres
- Mercedes has accepted that it will not take part in the test, following the International Tribunal ruling, despite being one of the victims of the failures at Silverstone.
- The YDT may be extended by 1 day to allow further testing if deemed necessary.
- They're also looking to change the regulations on introducing new tyre compounds/constructions without the teams' unanimous support if it is in the interests of safety.

Seems like a good step to me.

EDIT: they've also asked Pirelli for assurances that there won't be the same issues at the Nurburgring.

 

Pirelli can't give such assurance, and that will unfortunately mean no Nurburgring this year... Bernie is not losing anything on it anyway, as Nurburgring is not paying for this year.

 

Pirelli should incorporate duct tape cos you can fix anything with duct tape.

Ask the mythbusters......

 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108479

A preliminary idea of what happened at Silverstone.

It's important to note that the steel belts currently in the tyre also helps switch the tyre on (since steel conducts heat better than Kevlar).

In very short: a perfect storm of low pressures int he tyres, shockwaves from uneven kerbs raising temperature, and drivers cutting the chicanes very aggressively.

It's worth noting that that's not a final report. That report is still to come.

I can;t help but feel like Pirelli is getting the s*** part of the stick all along this debacle, in spite of them 1) doing what was asked, and 2) offering to put Kevlar belts back into what would have been the prime tyre at Silverstone.

That said - safety should be the defining factor, and Bindi rightly stated. Flying tyres are hardly good news.