The US Prison workforce. The new slave trade?

See PrisonerBen: Playstations for details - it isn't quite so straightforward.

Also consider that a prison term has consequences beyond the sentence served - poorer job prospects, higher insurance fees, possible loss of residence due to inability to pay rent or mortgage, family/relationship breakup - so even a short sentence, however well-deserved, can't be said to be a holiday.

 

I agree that working to pay off their debt to society (literally) is a good idea. Prisons aren't exactly cheap to build or operate, prisoners inadvertently hurt society twice: once with the crime(s) their convicted for and a second with the cost of keeping them locked up. Making inmates sit around twiddling their thumbs (no matter how uncomfortable their environment may be) isn't productive for either the rest of society or the inmates themselves.

 

Hopefully the prospect of having to work the whole day for barely anything will keep them from going to prison in the first place, although I realise thats not really now it works most of the time...

 

I think the issue Da_Rude_Baboon was highlighting was that having cheap labour gives private prisons an incentive to extend sentences (or to manufacture reasons for others to extend them) which then causes injustice.

As for being a deterrent, the only way this would realistically happen is if everyone was required to spend a few days in prison.

There is one method of avoiding the "slave trade" problem - require prisoners to be paid the minimum wage (and hence stop prisons from competing unfairly with industry) but to have the majority of those wages kept in a special account, only made available to the prisoner on release. That ensures they (a) receive a minimal amount while behind bars; (b) have an added incentive to complete their sentence early and (c) gain a nest egg to help them re-integrate into society (paying the deposit on a rented flat, buying furniture, etc).

 

They do. I'm sure I've heard of a fair few number of people who have been living on the streets, then committed crimes so that they could have a place to sleep and a three meals a day.

 

Paid minimum wage while also being provided free housing, free food and free medical treatment? Granted they're all of low quality, but that doesn't make them free.

Most other minimum wage employers don't have to cover these costs, their employees wages are expected to cover them. Therefore it's reasonable to pay prisoners under minimum wage by a reasonable amount if you want to keep things on par with the industry. 17 pence or such is certainly obscene, but a couple pounds under minimum, to be determined by a study of the prisoner's expenses, seems fair.

 

This is a clip of convicted murderer Varg Vikernes and apparently this is his prison cell in Norway. Can anyone confirm?

I mean, if that's what you get in Norway for killing a person... I don't know what to say.

 

This does happen (examples here and here) but is infrequent - it only makes sense for those whose lives are in pretty bad shape anyway.

 

In the case of a private prison, they should be receiving payment from the government to cover food, housing and related costs. If they aren't, then it seems extraordinarily unlikely (given it costs £45,000/year to house a prisoner in the UK) that they could make ends meet, even if they paid prisoners nothing.

 

I wonder if it would of been possible then to go to a prison and ask if you could work a minimum wage job, even though you hadnt committed a crime, as i couldnt find one out in the free.

Aslong as they remembered to let me go home after id finished my days work of course and not mixed me up with the prisoners, next your be telling me they will be allowed a pension aswel.

 

It's not a system which could ever fully cover its own expenses, but getting a little profit out of prisoners is a way of cutting down on the costs. Cutting down on the amount of tax payer money needed to maintain prison systems should be a high priority item.

Unfortunately, the high cost of prison construction and the constant cost of security will always push the per prisoner cost up. However, the cost of food, medical care, and housing payment (just building a prison is one thing, maintaining it is another) are basic livelihood costs which everyone pays for, why not prisoners?

 

Reducing a prisoner's wage from the national minimum of £5.93/hour to say, £3.93/hour would save £3,848/year - less than 10% of the cost of incarceration. If saving money is the priority, reducing the prison population (which in the UK's case should include dispensing with indefinite sentences and sentencing for minor crimes) would be a far more effective method.

They're in the custody of the State and (of necessity) deprived of most lawful ways of earning income. Of course, once they leave prison and (hopefully) gain lawful employment, they pay taxes which can reimburse society for the cost incurred.

Conversely in the UK, most people don't pay for medical care (except the prescription fee, currently fixed at £7.40) and the less well off can receive Housing Benefit to cover accommodation costs.

 

Less than 10% is more than 0%, every £3,848 a year is money saved for tax payers. Money saving solutions aren't mutually exclusive, there's nothing stopping other changes from saving even more at the same time.

It's also a little flawed to say that taxes paid after one's sentence reimburses their expenses. Those taxes are the same everyone has been paying and only cover the cost of current inmates, reimbursement would require paying more than the norm.

Everything is paid for, it's just matter of who's paying and when. Anything government funded is recieving money gathered from its people, usually in the form of taxes. With housing benefits that money is used to, hopefully, help the poor maintain a decent living. Forgive me if I'm being insensitive, but I think convicted criminals have given up their entitlements to such charity for the duration of their sentence. Their housing is provided, the least they can do is make a little money to help cover it.

 

As pointed out above, there are occasional stories of people so desperate for a meal and a bed that they will commit a petty crime (e.g. breaking a shop window) just to have a roof over their head for the night.

My comment was addressing the broader argument we often hear about how easy inmates have it. Some people like to complain about all those prisoners relaxing in their spas, just hanging out on the internet all day, but I suspect few of them actually believe such nonsense. Otherwise, if life is so grand behind bars more people would just toss aside the weekly time card for an orange jumpsuit. It's similar to the argument about all the low class people living large on government benefits. People complain, but few of them would actually adopt such a lifestyle if given the chance.

I would consider it, but orange isn't really my color. I look better in earthy blues.

 

it's kind of off topic but imo it's not really the prison system.. it's these retarded people we have as police officers that take a look as reason to bash your face in

the rookie officers are the worst of the bunch.. they will pull you over for no reason- they don't make any sense what so ever and you better recognize what kind of monster your up against before doing anything that might set them off

funny cause you always hear white people say.. well if your not doing anything wrong, then you got nothing to worry about.. I don't think they've ever had to deal with a badge wearing psycho or they've obviously never left the house- cause most anyone who's grown up in the states knows what a roving bad of idiots looks like- some of them just need an excuse

I mean sure, they get lied to all day.. and they have to use reasonable force when necessary, everyone can understand that.. I'm talking about the cops who have no common sense

like take recently.. 6 cops beat a retarded guy to death- you can hear him screaming for his dad, was filmed by some bystanders

you know special ed are like that.. they will resist to the end- it's not because they are a threat, it's because your dealing with a mentally deficient person



a radio interview with a cop who seen dispatch footage




I've ran into these kinds of cops before, and let me tell you it's scary.. like looking at a psychopath, they are just looking for a reason to beat you silly.. but work in prisons- really who cares.. if you guys want to give computers to your inmates.. good for you

they use guys from county to pick up trash on freeways and things like that here.. no worse than community service and it's good to get away from the showers and the elevator rides between floors handcuffed to a chair while the corrections officer beats you silly because he had a bad day

I just have a really f'd up view of police, paid tickets for no reason at all, been pulled over again for no reason at all other than profiled.. had my truck searched.. again I have no idea why I was pulled over in the first place.. but I've also dealt with some good cops who I can actually talk to- usually the veterans- well up until dick shafter shows up swinging his little dick around.. because he can

sorry but I can only speak from my own experiences.. after you've been in court so many times on total bs you tend to get bitter about it..

what was really interesting is.. I knew this mason in college, and after getting pulled over a few years back- I told him about it.. guess he knows the police sargent, he told me if I ever get pulled over again to tell them I want to talk to the sargent.. I've never been pulled over since xD

*edit
well better not say that, I would like to look into becoming a mason.. not because that guy went bucknuts in oslo either

I'm not for the private prison system either because they do abuse.. like heard stories about a prison, think was texas- they fed the prisoners nothing but corndogs for half a year.. because the warden found a truck of old corndogs cheap

 

I know it's slightly off-topic but i read this after all the Tottenham related violence in the uk and came to thehippoz post previous to this one.

I watched that video and in true internet fashion i've spent the last hour and a half surfing from vid to vid and it has left me with one overwhelming question.

"Holy ****ing ****, what the flying **** is wrong your cops in America?!"

There are so many incidents of your police being utter ***** it astounds me.

It also astounds me how they manage to keep so much of it fairly quiet. Maybe i didn't keep up with the news much over the last few weeks but i've nothing regarding the couple of incidents with Fullerton PD or anything at all about Dunkin'. That last one in particular makes me seethe with fury at the very thought of it.

I know it's not exactly constructive towards the subject but i had to get that out.

 

yeah it's pretty bad.. I've lived in a lot of different parts of the country too

some I can understand.. like when I was moving to cali, I stopped to see my grandmother in rural illinois.. everyone there is white

so being half asian.. I look mexican so the cops gave me a hard time there I'm a very reasonable person I'd like to think.. but when you've been pulled over in a rental car- and ticketed for no insurance

in a rental car.. and I've been pulled over for things like no front license plate.. walk around the front and point, you mean that one? and the cop says well I didn't see it

it's all profiling.. pulled over for tint on the front windows- there was none.. they just make up stories to pull you over because they can and try to escalate the situation into something it's not.. it's totally psycho


I've been pulled over and talked to like I had warrants on me for going 35 in a 45 AFTER the school zone.. I know to keep my mouth shut though when the cops get really shady

I've never been beaten, but back when I was living next to a music studio.. was plenty of stories to go around

you don't hear about it because noone ever films the beatings.. they've killed so many here in fresno it's not even funny.. last time I was on jury duty- a white lady on the jury was dismissed because her son was beaten to death by an officer.. it's so common someone always knows somebody who's been through it.. they do it a lot

actually the fresno pd has a really bad reputation.. in atlanta there was a lot of black officers- so it wasn't really too much of an issue with race.. but even there I met some really off the wall officers

flip side.. met some really good guys too.. it's not everyone- had cops let me go for speeding on long trips too.. it depends really who you meet, not fair to blanket all police.. just pointing out that when you have more than one officer beating on a mentally handicapped man.. it's not a problem with a few officers on the force.. there's a much deeper problem with the way they are trained and who they let in

my cousin is a cop too, he actually transferred departments because he found out his sargent was selling drugs they got in busts for extra cash.. corrupt from the inside

just best to keep your mouth shut around an officer here until you get a feel.. even then be careful- they have a lot of power over you.. even if they did something to you, in court the judge ALWAYS sides with the cop- 100% of the time unless you have video footage or something like that.. I learned that early on paying some totally bs tickets

been to court so many times.. know what's up- basically you go to pay fines because the judge will reduce them.. there is no way I've seen you can contest whatever the officer writes on the ticket.. you will be fined for whatever he writes whether you did it or not

 

Oh yeah, of course. My apoloigies for a badly worded post with a seeming generalisation, it wasn't my intent.

You're absolutely right there are both ends of the spectrum, for the bad there are also the good and it seems, from what you've said, that it's the older and more venerable cops which are the good guys.

A cop i know in the UK was thoroughly corrupt in a good way. He was, or so he told me once, dealing with a child molestation case and was interviewing the father. He asked the young (newly recruited) female officer to fetch his notepad from the car and once she was gone told the father exactly what weapon to use and how to have a concrete alibi and leave little-to-no evidence when going to the guys house and beating the shite out of him on his doorstep. (it was a definite case btw, only stupid legislation bollocks was delaying the arrest) I know it's not good persé and should not really be encouraged but in circumstances like that i wholeheartedly agree. That copper is now working with Interpol so i think there's a fair few terrorists having a miserable time of things

 

yeah I always generalize when I don't mean too.. I dunno about sending a guy off to beat someone else.. the father can do that himself, no need to give him directions =]

think I posted this before.. but I seen a guy a court one time.. mexican guy- made me laugh

he said.. 'like if someone did something to my kid and I saw them outside the court' (he started making cutting motion with his hands) 'then I took my revenge..'