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News Tom Clancy's Endwar PC delayed due to piracy

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 9 Oct 2008.

  1. Mentai

    Mentai New Member

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    It was an alright game (I personally didn't enjoy it), and as bad as this is to say, it was their own fault. It was their DRM/antipiracy that lead to the bad rumours. Publicity is everything, piracy is inevitable. If they had gone the stardock way and put no antipiracy measures in place the game would have been more successful. Perhaps it's examples like this that stardock built their business model around, either way, I'm glad some companies are learning.
    On topic, I don't care about this particular game, but I have to wonder what motivates directors to publicly say things like this. It's like giving the big finger to the community and my immediate response (and many others) is, "Well **** you too." It's the same with mirrors edge, unless they're going to release extra content that makes it worth it (like assasins creed did), I will gladly sit out my what, 8 hour $100 experience? (if that). I was going to buy that game, which is saying something considering the line up this christmas, but I'm not paying money to companies that don't respect their market.
     
  2. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper New Member

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    It holds water for me, as for others: they can make up their own arguments. :)

    And how many demos have you seen lately? It's gating some how fashionable to not release demos. I wander why... :rolleyes:

    I do not make excuses, I give you reasons. If some one breaks in my home and try to steal something I'll kick his ass but I don't remember breaking in any dev server room and stealing the HDD they store they games at. They still can sell their product and if the game worth it they do sell it to me later on. On other hand if they game is bad they'll never convince the pirates to buy their game.
     
  3. Mentai

    Mentai New Member

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    People have asked, and they are happy with the money they make and don't see piracy as anything more than the smokescreen it is. I can't remember where I read the interview, but I know at least valve is dedicated to the PC. I will always buy Valve games, regardless of my interest in them, simply because of their full support and dedication to their customers. It's the best consumer service I've ever experienced, I love the TF2 updates :)
     
  4. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah New Member

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    Your reasons are excuses, and there is none. It amazes me the lengths people here go to defend piracy, what a bunch of bull. Piracy is wrong, PERIOD,a nd does hurt Pc gaming, even if nothing else in developers gettting discouraged seeing years of their work getting stolen with care by many.
     
  5. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah New Member

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    Saying piracy is arojnd because games stink? How come the betetr the game the more it gets pirated? More Bull Crap. Why are people even defending piracy, it is wrong.
     
  6. pimlicosound

    pimlicosound New Member

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    1. A lot of people here have said that piracy is as big a problem for consoles as it is for PCs. I don't think it's done on anywhere near the same scale, probably because it's much riskier. You might have to mod your own hardware or run the risk of MS blacklisting your account.

    2. It's not a good argument to say that piracy is okay when the games suck. That doesn't mean developers deserve to be victimised, or to be "taught a lesson". They'll learn all too well from poor sales. If they've made a poor game but see it pirated on the Internet, it'll just make them think they've made a game people wanted but didn't want to pay for.

    3. It's not a good argument to say that you're not stealing anything physical. You're stealing a value created by the efforts of many hard-working people; the fact that it's information and not physical matter makes no difference.

    4. It's not a good argument to say that you're too poor to afford to pay the prices charged by games publishers. You wouldn't use that argument to support theft of anything else. Computer gaming is not a right, it's a luxury.

    I'm not a self-righteous dork. I used to download torrents with the best of them. But I know that deep down I only had one reason for it, and it's not a reason that justified my behaviour.

    It was simple: I thought I could get away with it.

    What's your reason?
     
  7. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah New Member

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    Good post, gamers And this generation have a false sense of self entitlement, they think the world owes them something, sickening really.
     
  8. Nictron

    Nictron Member

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    So should the publishers go to the extreme and invade your private space so that they can catch you and kick your ass? They are getting desperate and you would too if someone constantly stole what you worked hard to create.

    Whether you steel an item or a copy it is still stealing, stealing a 100$ HHD is a loss of $100 for that company stealing a $50 game is a lost sale for that company, so they loose the money. Even if argue that you would not of bought the game anyway it still creates the impression of lost sales when 2 million people play online but only 1 million copies where sold.

    By your actions you are giving them a reason to judge the PC gaming community, your actions are enabling the console to become the only gaming platform, so you know what?

    When PC gaming disapears in the near future, you will have to spend even more money on games because you'll have to get a console and pay the console gaming prices.

    OH SORRY I forgot you will chip the device and pirate again!

    Stating reasons as:

    - The games are to expensive!
    - The local shop did not have it!
    - The game had bugs!
    - I had no money!
    - There were no demos available!

    I hope you see the wrong in your ways because I have given you more than enough insight to actually change your faulty way of thinking.

    You'll rather chop down the apple tree then climb it, tomorrow you will go hungry because of yesterdays foolish actions!
     
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper New Member

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    First of all I never said pirating games is right or is good. I also never try to defend it. I know how many games I downloaded and I know how many of them I buy later on.
    Second: if you don't have the money to buy the game then how do you hurt the devs by downloading the game?
     
  10. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Would you work your ass off for people to steal your work?

    If you say yes, I want all of your work from now on, until you die, for free with no repercussions.

    No money? How'd you explain that PC you're using to play these pirated games, and then bitch that someone is pissed you're stealing their work?

    Pirates, you're all lying pieces of human garbage. Have yourselves a big steamy mug of **** off.
     
  11. pimlicosound

    pimlicosound New Member

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    You don't have the right to take what's not yours. It's that simple. Only the creators of a game - or of anything else - have the right to grant people license to use what they have made.

    You see, your concept of rights is faulty. You presume that you have a right to the game, and that a value-trade is an optional extra, conditional upon your subsequent enjoyment and approval.

    In fact, the creators have the right to withhold, destroy or do whatever they want with the intellectual property they have created. It is their choice to enter into value-trade agreements with purchasers, and to withhold their property from anyone not agreeing to their terms. It is not your right to subvert the rights of a property's creators.
     
  12. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah New Member

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    It hurts because they have no way of knowing whetehr you would buy it or not, and it certainly is discouraging for them to see years of their work being stolen without care by peopple like you. Not having money is no excuse, would you steal froma stroe if yuo had no money? The more people pirating the less support PC will get Regardless if you would have actually bought it or not. If you cannot save up 30-40 bucks for games, you should stop gaming, i could make that when i was 13 mowing lawns.
     
  13. Nictron

    Nictron Member

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    Lets look at this in a different way, by using synonyms for the listed arguments:

    So theft in a poor neighbourhood is just as bad as in the rich neighbourhood!
    So who is more victimized the poor or the rich?
    Theft is theft!

    A girl gets raped because she had a short skirt on. The criminal states that she was looking for it and therefore was justified?

    So they created a bad game so they deserved to be pirated?

    I am an auditor, I work hard on a report and it is stolen at completion and given to the client, the client refuses to pay me because he already has the report. I still have the original report but yet did not get paid for all my efforts!

    You go to the movies but feel that the prices are to high, then you jump the gate and go for free. This is still a criminal act and the cinema lost that sale even though they still have the movie at hand.

    Piracy is a criminal act, there is no argument around that.
     
  14. bbshammo

    bbshammo Member

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    These debates are always interesting in that they force some people to take a hard-line stance either side.

    The problem with that is that they invariably end up ignoring half of the equation and therefore coming to a flawed conclusion.

    Your final statement "nictron" sums your stance up perfectly, you assume that the act of piracy is equally attributable to every person involved in the process from start to finish.

    That's just plain ignorant of the reality, basically.

    There are two clear roles obvious in the process of unofficial game/movie/music distribution; those that deliberately source, copy and upload,therefore make available the software, and those that simply take it.

    You throw up all those deliberately misleading and tenuous analogies that are nothing but irrelevant rhetoric, when the only TRUE analogy is something more like someone commiting the criminal act of breaking into a warehouse or shop's store, taking a master copy, copying it, and leaving boxes full of copies on the high-street.

    The 99.9999% of people actually downloading the software provided for free are NOT the criminals you try and make them out to be; the people who wilfully sought and made available the software in the first place are the ones who perpetrated any crime.

    There'sno crime in taking something that's made available for nothing, in the virtual world or not!

    This is a subtle but EXTREMELY important distinction, if you're trying to determine accountability accurately.
     
  15. pimlicosound

    pimlicosound New Member

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    Your analogy is closer to the truth, bbshammo, but I don't understand how you make the leap to excusing downloader-pirates.

    1. They are not unaware of their involvement. They are not like unwitting victims buying bootlegged gear at a street market. They know that the torrents they are downloading are illegal, because their illegality is defined by virtue of what they are.

    2. Their demand for free downloadable torrents fuels the desire of the uploader-pirates to copy the games and make them available in the first place.

    3. As for your comment that there's no crime in taking something that's made available for nothing, it is neither the right of the uploader-pirates to make the copy available for nothing, nor the right of the downloader-pirates to accept what is made available contrary to the law.

    Both parties are equally guilty in this relationship.
     
  16. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah New Member

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    WOW, your saying piracy is not a crime? It IS, it is against the law, I cannot believe you are trying to say it isn't. Some of u are pathetic.
     
  17. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah New Member

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    You said all he said was rhetoric (In actuality it was truth), yet you turn around and say nothing wrong with taking something for free in the virtual world? WHAT? What difference does it make, virtual or not you are STEALING somones work, it is explicitlet stated as an illegal activity, nothing you say chanegs that. Any who pirates is breakign the law and just adding mroe fuel to devs who are getting sick of seeing their years of hard work being taking by ungrateful people like yourself. In that alone piracy is doing a lot of damage.
     
  18. Nictron

    Nictron Member

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    I get your point to a degree, buy witnessing a criminal act and choosing to ignore it is very much what piracy is even though you had no financial, but you get enjoyment from the product.

    No matter how you sugar-coat the whole thing it stays wrong, the industry have gone out of there way to advertise that piracy is wrong. You also know that the choice of the the publisher and developer is for you to earn that enjoyment by buying the game.

    By ignoring that fact and pirating you commit a falace or criminal act against that company and therefore ignore their rights which at the end of the day goes back to criminality.

    Whether my analogies are flawed or not they come down to the basic criminal act, which is wrong.
     
  19. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

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    One argument that often gets banded about is the fact that most pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyway, so it's no sale lost. Whilst this is true (just because you can own a Porsche for nothing doesn't mean you'll spend £50,000 on it), it's not 100% the other way: there are plenty of pirates who would go out and buy it if it wasn't available online. Why pay £30 when you can buy it for £0? Easy option. Whilst a million downloads does not equal a million lost sales, it does still equal a fair old whack of lost sales.
     
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper New Member

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    OK, lets put it in other words.

    Same amount of shoplifting happen in the rich and the poor neighbourhood, but the shopkeepers go to the rich neighbourhood just because they may earn more there and blame it on the shoplifting in the poor neighbourhood. What happens then?

    You try to sell ice packet in fancy packaging. You go to some desert and make money, then you go to the North pole, you sell nothing and complain that you sold nothing because the natives dig their own ice. Do they deserve to sell anything there?

    You write a good book but the manuscript is licked to the internet many people read the book, some like it, some don't. When the book is printed those who like it go to the book store and buy it, those who don't like it don't buy it. Do you go and sue those who did not buy your book? Are they obligated in any way to buy it?

    I go to my friends home and read a book. Am I pirating that book? Is it different from downloading the book as PDF from the internet?

    Before saying that can you define piracy for me?
    People need to understand that intellectual merchandise is not actually physical one and can't and should not obey the same set of rules. And until then there will be piracy either with PCs or the consoles.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not defending the piracy or try to justify it. I'm just saying that the devs and the publishers are going in the wrong direction.
     
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