speaking from experience here in the States (and backing up some of what Isaac has stated about taxes). - If companies can't find graduates that they need for their business, they will choose to locate their business elsewhere. If they shoulder the burden of the cost to educate the people in their area impacting their overall costs, they will relocate their business. Overall, if you're area can provide educated workers and lower taxes (overhead) you will attract much more business and therefore generate revenues. We have learned that lesson in my state.
I see where your coming from, and to an extent I agree. Unfortunatly, with fees increased further there will be people who cannot afford the top universities no-matter how many luxuries they live without. I completely disagree with a system where by entry to the top universities is limited by how rich you are rather than your intelligence. Maybe critical was too strong a word to use. After all we could survive perfectly well without people developing new technology, researching cures for diseases, exploring space... the list goes on (My mind on a monday evening is too tired to think of any more ). Would the world really be better for it? I personally don't think so.
IsaacSibson we've got plenty of room over here, quite a large alternative lifestyle population here in Dallas too (not that I'd know...But I've heard) I assume you're talking about going to Oz though It's the difference between: Socialistic political ideals - free education, healthcare, everything. But the government owns the factors of production. High Taxes, big (inefficient) government. And Capitalist, Conservative (libertarian in my case) political ideals - The populace own the factors of production, you have to pay for healthcare, education yourself but people are motivated to work hard and innovate. Low taxes, small government. To quote (possibly slightly paraphrased) Winston Churchill "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery"
And yet, name a major new technology to be developed in the UK with our free/low cost higher education? And then name one developed in the US, with very expensive higher education? Despite our subsidised education, the UK lacks innovation, and consequently has lost most engineering capability. The only world-class commercial engineering we have left is Rolls-Royce Aero engines, who almost went bankrupt a few years back (during development of the engines for the lockheed L1011). So, the US has the world's top semiconductor manufacturer (intel), as well as many other cutting-edge technology companies, and we have....FAR less. So your argument that there won't be any engineers, etc is completely groundless.
people are groaning abt a bit of uni fees. Think about us overseas students. I gotta pay £20,000+ a year in fees, and then there is the accomodation and other stuff as I have no family in the UK
You're just paying the true cost of university education, because the british government (obviously) won't subsidise overseas students. Top-up fees don't apply to overseas students because there's nothing to top-up. You're already paying full whack. And yes, people are complaining about having to pay £5000 for something others have to pay £20000 for. It is akin to a buddhist teaching. If you have something and lose it you will be less happy than if you never have it to begin with. Either way you're in the same position.
The technology stuff ?, I like gadgets and the like, things have progressed rapidly in the last few years alone, which is good, but how far can it be taken, and how far does it need to go, is there anything wrong with what we have now, do we need 10Ghz CPU's ? maybe not. Cures for stuff, I'd say that comes under the health bit, may sound harsh, but should we cure things we dont fully understand, without fully understanding what knock on effect the cure may have, to other people later on (i'm not against curing things, just taking a diff view of it) Exploring space, Do we need to, why do we need to be flying around and spending billions on things we dont need to know, cash could be spent better.
I live next to a large Uni in the States... we really stick it to oversea's students here too as a means to subsidize our local students. To us, foreign students represent high GPA's and a lot of money. As a rule, forgien families are willing to pay very high prices for US education at major uni's and we have been known to exploit that.
Foolish! You're assuming that everyone can be good at every thing! People aren't units. This isn't a computer game. You can't say "worker", "scientist" and point at random people! Would steven Hawking be a good chef? Would Gordon Ramsay be a great Semiconductor Process engineer? Would Gordon Murray be a good astronomer? People are good at specific things. If you neglect that you will waste a great deal of talent.
"You can't say "worker", "scientist" and point at random people!" Sure you can, this guy did and it worked out alright...... didn't it....
Where did i say anyone can be good at everything ? where did i say "Oi you, do this, do that ?" I was trying to state that these "critical" people and things arnt that "critical" (yep i know you said it was prob a bad choice of words, sorry for keeping on ranting on about it) Its advisable not to say that someone is "assuming" somthing when that is all you are doing about what they said, and blowing it out of context.
But that was exactly what you were inferring. If we completely cut exploration of space then what do all of our top astronomers do? Start flipping burgers?
"critical" again, are they "critical", in my books, not really, it would be sad to see them all go, and a loss, but do we really need to do it. The amount that gets spent on space exploration could be put to a lot better uses, people may not have a job doing that, but the cash could go to somthing like suppling medication and food to third world countrys and the like. (and sorry for taking this totaly off topic!)
But as I already said, you're wasting a lot of enourmous talent there. And if we don't explore and develop the abilities to explore space, then we won't have the abilities to leave this planet should we need it. You're looking at the short term.
Don't forget all the massive advances in common civilian technology that we have gained from Military and NASA projects. Teflon anyone? Titanium? Carbon Fiber?
I agree it would be a waste, but there is also a lot of wasted talent these days, someone(edited) in the third world places could be a world class brain surgen, or the like, but they dont get the chance to, or even to live for a half decent amount of time. How many people that cant afford, or say they cant afford the uni fees, and hence dont go, and hence dont end up in the job that they are good at, but insted end up working a night shift in the local "B&Q" (no offence anyone). Theres hell of a lot of waste anyway. I suppose what im trying to say there is allways a good and bad thing to everything, its just finding a ballance between them.
Not "anyone" could be a brain surgeon. I couldn't, that's for sure. But yes, this is true about opportunity. And yet mr. Jaz is complaining that he might have to stretch to afford this education which many others don't get the chance of. I never said we weren't lucky. However, it is also a question of culture. It's all very well casting western values onto others, but it does not work. Whilst you might aspire to be a brain surgeon, others may not. It doesn't take higher education to necessarily be happy. If, let's say, an african tribal aspires to be as good a hunter as his uncle, does he have to go to university for that? Much of africa's problems can be attributed to the imposition of western values and cultures upon different cultures. Higher education is such a thing.
Sorry bout that, i hoped you would see the edit before posting, i get ahead of me self when typing and slap the 1st word that comes into me head in Again, i havent said that higher education is necessary be happy, nore the fact that you need to have gone to Uni to do what you want, check what i said before about engineers and some of the best have no formal qualifactions. and can someone take this firmly back on topic before we take it further off topic
