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"torso cannot possibly fly on its own"

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Shadowspawn, 18 Aug 2004.

  1. Lord_A

    Lord_A Boom baby!

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    Yes, true, but at least they could hear someone shouting at them or something.
    Anyway, the point is how is an airline to know how adabt a deaf person is?
    Suppose someone who only recently lost their hearing decides to fly, that person's ability isn't going to be up to that of a person who has been deaf for say 2 years or more.
    It gets complicated, and messy, and it seems unfair, but I still stand with the view that persons with disabilities should notify the travel agent / airline of any special needs (the travel agent / airline must provide this)
     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Happens though, dude. Just doesn't necessarily make prime-time news. You should try flying anywhere in a wheelchair.
     
  3. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    Well air france could have made money on the ticket, now they'll lose millions in the lawsuit.

    They should have :search: I mean people have won lawsuits against mcdonalds for both getting fat from their food and burning their tongue on coffee (saying there should have been a warning saying the coffee would be hot...)
     
  4. MrWillyWonka

    MrWillyWonka Chocolate computers galore!

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    Yes, I read about the lady who burnt her tongue, McDonalds should sue her for being so dumb, of course, coffee is always made cold.

    And the law is getting more stupid by the minute, you can sue anybody for practically anything. A muslim man in Nottingham sued a school for issuing hot cross buns to everyone - including his children - during easter as the celebrations did not happen in his religion. He won cos the courts said that it was 'religious hatrid'....

    Stupid laws.... the courts should save their time for proper cases like for that woman.
     
    Last edited: 24 Aug 2004
  5. The Savior

    The Savior What's a Dremel?

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    I only skimmed the thread, but assuming that there is a law against seriously disabled people flying without a helper, she shouldn't be able to sue for anything. The airline was acting out of order for their rude comments, but being rude isn't a crime.
     
  6. MrWillyWonka

    MrWillyWonka Chocolate computers galore!

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    discrimination is
     
  7. sexykitten

    sexykitten We love Jaz

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    I believe you refer to the case of the woman witha coffee between her thighs, that case was actually won because mcdonalds staff were brewing the coffee at a higher than should be temp, they had been warmned before that coffee temp should be lowered so yes the lawsuit was a correct challenge. The people who sued McDonalds for getting fat didn't win that case.

    Maybe i'm justa Bitch but i fully agree with airfrance that this woman should have travveled with a helper.
     
  8. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    This is ironic, right?

    Being treated differently but not being discriminatory?

    Air Iberia were *not* right in their actions.

    What language did the staff speak? Spanish? English? Esperanto? Would they have turned a passenger away who only spoke Urdu? Or Welsh? I dont think so.

    If this had happened in the UK or within UK durisdiction, I think there would be a good case to answer under the Disability Discrimination Act. Anyone offering any kind of public service must take 'reasonable steps' to cater for the needs of people with disability. To me, that points to providing mechanisms for people with disabilities to travel safely along with other passengers.

    It's a philosophical argument based on the Social Model of Disability - the person doesnt have a problem; society has the problem coping with the person.

    And personally I hope both Air France and Air Iberia get their arses kicked in court...
     
  9. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    I'm pretty sure that at least one of the presumably many fat cases was won. And of course the winner went back and got more food. :duh:

    Still, it's your own fault if your burn yourself putting coffee between your legs. Personally I don't like it there for that reason... I mean it's not like there's a worldwide standard for coffee temperatures. Like if you boil water and make your own it'll be quite hot at least at first, but if you go out and buy it, it may be cooler or may not be. It would be one thing if there's a sign there that says "our coffee is supposed to be served at xx degrees" and it wasn't at xx degrees, but it's just stupid.
     
  10. MikeTitan

    MikeTitan Ling Ling: 273 Battle Points

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    My friends mom is like a Teacher for Deaf kids. One of her early students is 18, Im assuming the same age as yr13 students?? I met her once or twice and also went to her graduation, she was able to keep up with our converstations very easy.

    That being said. Im sure if the oxygen masks drop and everyone else puts on the mask, then they will do the the same, Or they might notice if a wing is missing or if the plane is spinning out of control. :idea: :rolleyes:

    And if I was on a plane and a person who had no arms or legs was on it, And the plane was gonna blow, why not grab them? without hands or legs they can't weight that much... :worried:
     
  11. Froggy

    Froggy What's a Dremel?

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    This is just F***ed up.
     
  12. jkdd77

    jkdd77 What's a Dremel?

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    Sorry to up this old thread, but I felt it was important to point out that the 23 deaf passengers prevented from flying by Iberia on the 22nd July were ALL over 18, as shown by this link: http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3241727, and as confirmed by my own enquiries.

    It seems that they were thrown off the Iberia flight to Spain because the airline wrongly believed that the deaf passengers in question were children, and took the decision that 23 unaccompanied deaf 'children' constituted a safety risk. When the airline realised its mistake regarding the passengers age, instead of owning up and apologising it instead did a complete and highly cynical U-turn.

    Instead of asking to see their passports to check their dates of birth (which would have confirmed that they were all over 18 and therefore adults) the airline decided to throw them off, telling them that they were thrown off because they were deaf and not because they were 'children' so that they would leave the aeroplane without making a fuss. It seems that the airline then initially briefed the media (including the Scotsman, Teletext, and the Guardian) that the reason they were thrown off was because they were deaf 'children' not accompanied by an adult.

    When the airline realised that the young people were in fact adults it should have immediately apologised, offered compensation and moved to review its policies so that this would not happen again in future. Instead, it seems that the airline shamefully and disgracefully tried to cover up its mistake by issuing a new, later press release, (on which this BBC story is based) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/3919249.stm

    The airline then claimed that they were thrown off solely because they were deaf, citing non-existent 'international travel regulations regarding the numbers of deaf people allowed to fly unaccompanied', in a greedy and shameful attempt to cover up its blunder and avoid having to pay compensation. The Civil Aviation Authority and the Disability Rights Commission have both said that no such regulations exist proving that Iberia was deliberately and knowingly lying. Indeed, in many other countries it is illegal and a specific offence under anti-discrimination law to prevent deaf people from travelling simply because they are deaf, as this is gross discrimination which has no basis whatsoever on safety grounds.

    On the subject of safety, how can earth can it be safe for an airline to throw off English speaking, lip-reading deaf people, on 'safety grounds', but not foreigners unable to speak English, and unable to communicate with the crew in any way whatsoever. This could lead to the palpably absurd situation where a British deaf person, unable to hide or her deafness, is thrown off an aeroplane 'because they are not accompanied by a carer', but a foreign deaf person from a non-English speaking country is indistinguishable from a hearing compatriot and hence is allowed to fly!

    This could potentially be indirect discrimination on the grounds of nationality, contrary to the EU's Treaty of Rome, as, say 23 Polish, non-English speaking, deaf young adults would have been indistinguishable from 23 Polish, non-English speaking hearing young adults.

    It could also be pointed out that allowing airlines to expel unaccompanied deaf people does not prevent deaf people from flying unaccompanied, but simply penalises those honest and responsible deaf people who 'own up' to being deaf to the airline staff. The result of this is simply that most deaf people will simply pretend to be hearing, and will not inform the airline of their deafness before the flight. In other words the airline's discrimination will actually reduce safety rather than increase it.

    Looking at this incident, a cynic, or indeed a realist, would say that the only thing they did wrong was to inform the airline of their deafness before the flight. Had they not done so, the airline would probably have not found out, as I am led to believe that the group could mostly speak good English and lip-read to a high standard.

    Unfortunately Iberia's spin, lies and propaganda has misled much of the media into thinking that the group were children. The media has then inadvertently fed this false information to their readers, who have consequently come to believe that the airline acted responsibly, when nothing could be further from the case.

    I understand that at least some of the deaf ADULTS in question are now suing Iberia.

    Although I am not a lawyer, I would think that they have a cast iron case, given the Easyjet precedent:
    http://news.bbc/1/hi/england/merseyside/3733935.stm
    "A spokesman said that the pilot had mistakenly believed that the group "fitted the same category" as special needs passengers and, as such, would need to be accompanied by carers in case of an emergency evacuation." It was ruled that the pilots excuse was extraordinary and would logically lead to the exclusion of all non-English speaking people.

    You can find more information on Iberia's disgraceful discrimination, lies and cover-up, at http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.php? threadid=138994&c=0#post2342226.

    You may wish to contact Ed Scoble directly if you have any further questions on this topic.

    (Note to mods: I apologise for linking to more than one news story at the same time, but I felt this was more sensible than speading the information I wished to post across several posts, or alternatively posting information not backed up by any links at all, as it might not be believed. I feel it is very important that Iberia's disgraceful discrimination, hypocrisy, spin, lies, and cover-ups become known to as wide an audience as possible. I assume linking to other forums is permitted as I cannot find anything in the forum rules about it. If not, then I apologise.)
     
    Last edited: 28 Dec 2004

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