Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 8 Mar 2010.
Steam has an in-discrepancy with exchange rates.
I am not discussing the legalities here and I am not against the second hand market in any form, but since you seem to be "waaaah support the developer", one would imagine you would buy new games so the money actually goes to the developer. As legal as the second hand market is, it probably hurts the developers nearly as much as piracy does.
Also as for your "evidence", nobody here denies PC piracy. You can pull as many gigantic numbers as you want but how many of these are actually lost sales? How many people who were potential pirates of AC2 have now gone out and bought the game thanks to their DRM? How many future sales has Ubisoft lost because of this inconvenience to customers?
Also you are taking one example of a game to say the entire PC experience is bad. It's like if I said that MW2 mp sucks on the PS3 then all PS3 games are bad. I actually saw some kind of ping seeker in MW2 the other day, OMG OUTRAGEOUS UNACCEPTABLE KILL THE PS3.
The obviours choice for consumers would be to launch a class action against Ubisoft
This is the type of wayward thinking of most PC gamers who try and justify piracy! It's not about support the developer, you act like your standing up for some worthy cause or something. It's about paying for what you get. If you think you have a right to pirate, then walk into the store, snatch the game off of the shelf, and walk out! Or are you too chicken $h!t? Exactly, you are!! You're scared to do that because there are consequences if you get caught! It's stealing. Everybody knows that punks can't face consequences! They talk loud and thats it. So just like the pedophile, pervert, and identity thief, the pirate hides in the vastness of the internet to do his dirty work. Why? Because there are no consequences, you won't get caught. So it's not about DRM, prices, or the game itself. It's about "you" the PC gamer, and your willingness to steal because you feel that you can get away with it.
First off, in order for the game to be sold "used" it had to be "purchased" first, so the developer got his cut unlike the pirate who steals the game and the developer gets nothing! So the comparison is ridiculous. I've also purchased new games at way cheaper prices with discounts from old games I've turned in. The developer got his cut. I've also purchased used games that are out of print and are no longer sold new. I've ourchased older games for old systems that are nolonger made. People turn in all kinds of games, and systems as well! You can buy a "used" 360, PS3, Wii, ect. I'd never buy a used console on the internet. I love the used market.
Every last one of them were lost sales! Every last one! You played the game without paying for it...you stole the game...period! So don't blame DRM, which goes unnoticed to people who pay for their games, keep their PC's clean, and they're legit. The people to blame are the hackers, who interrupted EVERYONE'S enjoyment by attacking the servers and trying to bring them down.
In the grand scheme of things, all I want to do is game! Thats it. So with that said, anything that interferes with that goal, I avoid. The entire PC experience is not bad, but the majority of it is when compared to the console experience. It sucks. It's a hassle. Don't believe me? Then just read the forums, any PC forum! It's a b!tch fest of glitches and gaffes, "the game won't do this", "the game won't do that", "the game won't work", blah, blah, blah. Really, all these people are trying to do is play the game!
I'm old school, I pay for my games, it's my skills vs yours, my PC is clean, and I'm legit. So thats the enviroment I'm looking to play in. Just look at what happened to AC2, why put up with that? Hell even MW2! The online experience in these and other PC games suck! PC games are under constant duress, and now...attack, from the hackers, cheaters, and thieves of the industry. The devs try to keep up with patches, can't, and give up. Then the game goes to $h!t, and the inmates are running the asylum. With the games being multi-platform, and no real difference between them... why? Why put up with it? I could get into other areas of problems with the PC but those are not the point. I talking from a pure gaming standpoint right now. Why put up with this type of BS when I don't have to? I can clearly see why M$ and the other console makers are so vigilant in keeping these people off of their networks and the like, with mass bannings, fines and jail!
so if i went out and bought AC2 would i be able to play it on the train on my laptop? the answer is NO - thats intrusive.
Hey! You could bring your "desktop" along, OR your HDTV and console!
Either your playing devils advocate, arguing for the sake of arguing or you honestly can't see the point the other's are trying to make.
Not all games have demos (and this counts for both consoles and PC's) however, at least for the consoles, you can go to blockbusters and rent the game or borrow a friends copy. You'd be SOL for the PC though.
Plus, once you've bought the game and finished it with a console you can trade in/sell to a friend to get money towards your next purchase. Again, this cannot be done with the majority of PC games due to the game being locked down. In the halcyon days of PC gaming, we had just as much freedom to sell our old PC games on as we do our console games now.
In an ideal world (if piracy didn't exist) both versions should be able to be sold on once you're finished with it - But, Believe me, if the publisher could get away with it, the 2nd hand console market would be tied down just as much as the PC market.
And in this case the DRM is not non-intrusive if your legit, you're tied to having an active net connection in order to play - for someone out in the sticks with a very flakey connection this makes the game unplayable whether the server is working fine or not.
A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.
no.... no you can't... I don't carry a generator with me to school, or have the money to pay for a wireless internet/3G connection, just because I want to play a game THAT I PAID FOR!!! but, If I download the cracked version.... oh wait, I can.... other than supporting a developer (who is just intent on adding more and more DRM, and pushing consolified versions of games onto PC) there is no logical reason for me to actually buy the game, as it does not allow me to use it as I like.
The fact is, if you don't have an active Internet connection, you cannot play the game you paid for. If I am on the train/bus/ anywhere without an Internet connection, I cannot use the game I paid for.
You really are arguing for the sake of arguing now, and you aren't even making any sense
hes just avoiding the question because he doesnt have a valid response to it.
So the moral of this thread...... Pirates suck.
we already knew that. but Publishers treating their customers like pirates sucks even more.
I see the point and hear the whine, I'm just not buying it (no pun intended). It's stealing, pure and simple. You can come up with all of he excuses you want, it's theft. I'm just calling it what it is, and you don't like it. If you don't think so, then walk into the store, take the game, and walk out. Then come talk to me...
Then rent it, or borrow your friends copy! It's the same damn game that is on the console. As a matter of fact they even recommend that you use the 360 controller!
So why game on the PC?!! You're playing the same damn games, with a console controller to boot! So what are you going to do, trade-in a stolen game? You just proved my point! You just don't want to pay for it... that it and thats all! Call it what it is and quit making up ridiculous excuses. It's theft, and those who steal are thieves.
Oh don't think that they're not trying! Gamestop made 2 billion from used games! EA is attacking that market.
Poor fellow, I guess he should get a console then and all of these nagging liitle problems will go away...immediately!! So I guess he can't even play the majority of his PC games because they require and active internet connection to be activated. Can't connect, can't activate can't play. That goes for any MMOs, some RTS and RPG games. He also won't be using Steam either. See, AC2 isn't the only game that requires an internet connection, it's just the latest excuse!
A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.[/QUOTE]
Really? See above:
I believe you are being deliberately obtuse. There is a world of difference between needing a single, one time activation online, and a constant connection needed. It is perfectly OK for me with the former, I can go home over the weekends and download updated to games/activate new ones, alll is OK. With the latter though, I can no longer play games 6 days a week. Though they say "if you have an internet connection you can play", that is all BS, I'd like to see it get through the firewalls my school has in place.... One time activation: bearable. Constant internet connection: no sale.
And you know he didn't pay for it... how? He said he bought a legitimate copy. If you're going to make an arguement at least use facts, even if your logic is flawed. Following your example I may as well say you're a pedophile who hides this fact by trolling the internets rather than coming out in the open with your sick fetish. But that would just be petty name calling and gets us nowhere.
Now, the simple fact is, if he doesn't have an internet connection he can't play MMOs either. But that is by the very design of the game requiring a connection to other players. Assassin's Creed 2 and Silent Hunter 5 do not require other players, as such they should be available for play regardless of internet connection. However, Ubisoft's DRM requires an always on internet connection which prevents him from playing wherever he chooses.
Let me put this in terms that might relate to you better. You have an Xbox 360 I assume, is this correct? And you possibly own Halo 3, is this correct? And you bought both of those items legitimately, correct? Assuming all of those are true, let's do a little pretending. If you want to play Halo 3 online you need to have internet access, this is a given. But, let's pretend you don't. Let's also pretend you only have one controller. You can't play a multiplayer match of Halo 3. Now taking this fact, let's pretend you want to play through the singeplayer campaign instead. Normally you'd be able to, but let's pretend Microsoft copied Ubisoft's DRM for Halo 3 and required you to be connected to Xbox Live to play. Since you have no internet access like we said earlier, you would not be able to play the singleplayer campaign either because you could not connect to the DRM. That would be restricting you, the legitimate gamer, from playing Halo 3 even in a singleplayer mode on your own legitimate console.
On a side note, players are able to play games purchased on Steam even with no internet connection. Steam can operate in offline mode allowing players to still access their games assuming there is no additional DRM related to those games. Data obviously won't go to the SteamCloud, but it will operate perfectly fine on your local machine.
First off, I pay for every game I play, I don't download games illegally, even to see if I like them, I base my purchasing decisions on reviews, and playing the game on other people's systems.
I have not purchased/downloaded/played/cracked AS2, as I refuse to support a company that decides that this level of DRM is a good idea. I do however, crack my games when DRM cripples me when I want to play my game, and the DRM makes that impossible.
Stop assuming that we all pirate games, and get down off of your pedestal, it is just making you look like an ass.
No, I can't play MMOs, or any game that has multiplayer elements , and neither do I expect to. however, I do expect a single player game to be playable anytime, anywhere, without needing an internet or server connection to play. I'm perfectly happy to validate my games, to imput key codes, register, make an account, whatever, but after that, I don't expect to be tied to a developers servers for life.
Anyways, I can play those steam games I paid for, they have a nice "offline mode" option, so I don't need to be connected to the servers.
You really need to see that most of us are not defending piracy here, we are simply arguing against draconian DRM that hurts those who pay for the game. Along with that, you need to stop insulting us like we are those evil pirates who must have killed your cat when you were a kid or something , there is no legitimate excuse for the rage you have brought to this topic otherwise.
You also need to stop telling us all to buy consoles, those of us who want to, will, on our own accord. It's just like telling a PC user to buy a Mac if they don't want to, or telling a Linux user to switch to windows, if they don't want to, they won't, and nothing you will say can change that.
I think Warrior may just be a console advocate.
Well if you realisitically think about this, look at it from a user-base perspective, If everyone logs on at the same time, the server will be over loaded, compound it with an attack and you have a disaster.
With all that said, the PC still ousts the consoles simply on the framrate argument, try jumping in the water in AC2 on the PS3.. Lagfest abounds.
So each platform has it's issues, there is no flawless platform.
Yes, I know what renting and trading in games are for..but you still didn't understand my point, there's no way you can trade in a legit game you bought for money in stores..anywhere!
There, proved it, you mentioned only PCs. Although I will admit, I'm only doing this so you can figure out what you've been saying.
If you are saying I should borrow a console copy then that's flawed. What If i don't have a console? Or I like my Mouse and Keyboard?
If you're saying I should borrow the PC copy, then we might have an argument.
1. I like gaming on my PC because I also do work on it, it's also called freedom of choice, I ask you, why question why i want to game on the PC?
2. The fact you're assuming that I'm stealing is a wee bit moronic, if you lump the legit customers and the pirates together, well, let's just say the backlash will be quite monstrous.
Oh boy this is going to be another fiasco ending in 500+ posts.
The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate. It's different everytime! The latest and greatest is the need for a "constant" internet connection. But you have a whole genre of PC games that not only require you to be constantly online, but charge you monthly for the privilege! Where is the outrage?!! Where? It's a joke! It's phony! You're not playing any Steam games (that you paid for) without being online...constantly!!! You're also paying a premium for that privilege as well! Again, where is all the pent up outrage?!! Heres the sad truth, when you call people out for what they are, they get mad. Why? Don't they know? So lets just be honest. It wasn't "hackers" that attacked Ubisoft's servers...it was PC gamers. It's not the "pirates" stealing games...it's PC gamers. It's not the "hackers", "cheaters", and "thieves" ruining the multi-player experience for everybody...it's PC gamers! This is the PC gamer doing this to himself. Thats why I'm soooo glad I have the option to game on consoles, and support M$, Sony, and Nintendo 100% in their efforts to ban by the millions! We don't want the $h!t in our neighborhood! You think PC DRM is tough, how about having not just the game not working, but the console is banned...for life!!
Yep, you get a life sentence for hacking, cheating, and stealing, over there and everybody knows it! Do that at your own risk, because if caught, you know the consequences. Some people buy a "new" console and learn their lesson, and others need to taught again. But guess what, the console is thriving! DRM and life sentences be damned! Gamers are willing to spend the money twice!! The gamers are happy, the devs are happy, people are gaming and making money! Why can't this be for the PC side of the hobby? Why is PC gaming becoming so corrosive and combative? Devs vs PC gamers. It sucks.
The outrage is that you apply a blanket statement to the legit and pirating PC gamers.
A constant connection for a single player game like AC2? That's outrageous. A constant connection for an MMO that has an online fee? i can still choose not to play.
Steam's got an offline mode that allows you to play games as w/o a connection as long as the game in quesiton has no other DRM.
I don't pay for Steam, yes it sells games, yes i have to activate my game on steam, but i don't pay for it directly like a monthly fee.
Actually it is, the majority of PC gamers and all gamers don't pirate or cheat or steal, just the minority, but you have blown it out of proportion.
You're glad to support a closed market? One where you are forced to do something their way all the time? I'll pass, I like modding my games.
Console banning affects only the ones who deserve it, DRM affects moreso the customer than the pirate(seeing as pirates circumvent the measures), DRM is worse since it's mainly the paying customer that takes it up the ass.
Stupid gamers are, most of us aren't made of cash.
Separate names with a comma.