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UK General Election 2017

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Risky, 8 Jun 2017.

  1. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, once the brexiters wake up and realise that there are no unicorns the tories will throw her out quicker than that dodgy ham at the back of the fridge.
     
  2. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Would probably explain why there's been no serious effort to get rid of her... screw the whole 'we need stability, stability means rallying behind may' bs, if they wanted her gone she would be gone...

    They want her to stay right where she is, so she's the one holding the parcel when it blows up...
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    Indeed. Nobody else wants the job, except idiot Leadsom. The hard-core Brexiteers criticise May from the side lines and shout loudly that she must pursue a hard Brexit, but they offer no suggestions (so she must go begging with the opposition) and are not exactly lining up to take her place. Farage quit UKIP altogether; Cummings is disavowing the result of his campaign; Boris Johnson is keeping his distance from any leadership challenge; David Davis is already seeding the idea that May is intransigent with her red lines and hamstringing him in negotiations so he can abdicate responsibility for a poor outcome. Project disavowal is in full swing.
     
    Last edited: 11 Jul 2017
  4. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

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  5. Disequilibria

    Disequilibria Member

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    Last edited: 13 Jul 2017
  6. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    Yeah, because there's a guy who can relate to the poor working classes. :hehe:

    I love the British working class. All railing against the elite, but compulsively tugging their forelock as soon as an upper class toff walks by.
     
  7. Disequilibria

    Disequilibria Member

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    Floccinaucinihilipilification :p
    That's just inverse snobbery, only works effectively with the core labour vote. There are very, very, good reasons as to why he'd be more effective than most, all really because if we're going to be serious D. Davis has to stay in place.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jul 2017
  8. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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  9. Disequilibria

    Disequilibria Member

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    He's a staunch unionist that's all that will count and I think they fear the other guy far more...
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    No, that's an observation. Was a vote for Brexit not a vote against the liberal elite and the establishment? But those same people sycophantically worship an Eton upper-class toff living in a rarefied bubble of privilege. In any case he is totally unsuitable; you might as well pick Boris Johnson. At least he's entertaining as he destroys the country. But you keep going for the cult of personality; it worked out so well with Theresa May. :hehe:

    And please, we're all waiting for the government to get serious about Brexit.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jul 2017
  11. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

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  12. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Would they risk a threat to their alliance with the DUP (if it falls they need to hold a new election) when they can avoid that risk by having someone else replace May?
     
  13. Disequilibria

    Disequilibria Member

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    It wouldn't be a risk and they wouldn't risk corbyn. (direct rule from whom they consider a long time sinn fein stooge)
    First it's not sycophancy, it's a matter of best man for the job.
    Second It's not a cult of personality, and that didn't work out badly for corbyn.
    There are good reasons why he'd be an excellent leader over all others, just from his characteristics and abilities, he's the anti may.
     
  14. Mankz

    Mankz 5318008

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    I see nothing wrong with that.. :worried:
     
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  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    I'm looking forward to seeing Rees-Mogg battle the elite establishment on behalf of the working classes. :D

    It totally is a cult of personality. Farage played it, Boris Johnson won the EU Referendum on it, Theresa May shaped her GE campaign around it --only to find that Corbyn did it better.

    And what are those? And why didn't he step forward at the last leadership election?
     
    Last edited: 18 Jul 2017
  16. Disequilibria

    Disequilibria Member

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    Corbyn didn't do it better, just that everyone found out Theresa May doesn't have a personality. :hehe:
    He likely wont this time unless pushed.
    Firstly to deal with the posh issue. In reality this will only matter to inverse snobs mainly because it becomes an asset rather than a liability as people see more of him. He doesn't try to hide it, as "call me dave" Cameron did ( I mean seriously "eton rifles is my favourite song" and west ham/aston villa favourite football team), and that gives him an authenticity (like corbyn) he's not pretending to be someone whom he isn't. The next point is that he is self effacing which just kills any air of arrogance, which Cameron and Osborne exuded frequently, and corbyn often can sound like when he gets moralising (It was noted in the campaign corbyn had worked on this). He's also capable of great "velvet gloved" put downs which never come accross as public school boy bullying as Cameron often did. So for most people this becomes either neutral or a positive for him.
    Also when the opposition campaign on inverse snobbery this has usually backfired so it's not something the opposition want to play.

    In terms of best man for the job, I say the following with the caveat that this is the best person to lead the conservatives and the attributes that will help him improve his party's position not whether you think the policies he'd likely pursue would be good or bad:
    1.Public interaction: This may not have been noticed, you know with how sheltered may was, but corbyn didn't venture far from a friendly crowd either (much like trump). However I've seen much of Mogg over the years and his non stage managed interactions with the public are perfect and I wager he could do it all day long. Corbyn couldn't, it would be a big flip
    2.Debates: He is a very good debater and I mean that in the sense that he puts forward the best case for his point of view and in the best manner, not whether you think he's correct or not. He could debate corbyn any time any where and would tear his student marxist politics to shreds, very politely of course.
    3. Clear direction and decisive: basically taking a leaf out of Thatcher's book here. Understanding that it is better to have two parties with a clear difference and choice, endeavouring to be the one party who's direction is argued best.
    4. He can clearly state policy, the who, what, why, where, when and how of it.
    5. Master level 100 bear trap detection and disarmament: Can always avoid a bear trap and answer a question in a manner that is not insulting. Eg. watch QT a few weeks ago where he answered the question about Cameron calling public sector workers selfish for wanting a pay rise.
    6. More calm and collected than corbyn, Corbyn's calm persona is an affectation, JRM has no mask to slip.
    7. He's well respected and liked across the house and across bitter political divides, which I think would return genuine cabinet government rather than quasi presidential tony blair style PMs.
    8. He's memeable in a good way, not a gurning robot sort of way.
    9. Can think on his feet: Links heavily into 1,3 and 5 but makes him deadly in a campaign of live interactions.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    I dispute 1-3 for starters, but most importantly:

    10. He lacks compassion.

    That he doesn't seem to have a mask to slip should worry you. He is the caricature. He is intelligent, eloquent, mannered, confident and can be charming. But he has no self-doubt and no humility. Therefore he doesn't question himself and is not compassionate. He is smug. And he lies, and therefore is insincere. And in a leader, that won't do.

    This is just more cult of personality. I like my leaders human, thanks, flaws and insecurities and all, and self-aware of those, and humble, and compassionate; and I like politics to be guided by evidence-based and ethical policy, not by character appeal.
     
    Last edited: 22 Jul 2017
  18. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Unlike May he at least would be an enemy you could respect.
     
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  19. Disequilibria

    Disequilibria Member

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    Lies? specifically when? and be careful of your examples because corbyn is somewhat economical with the truth in areas that have contrary evidence to his assertions that can mean either ignorance or an attempt to mislead.
    The lack of compassion is just your prejudice. I refer you to the post in the Eu thread and check his contribution to the queens speech debate.
    He's amply self effacing and self depricating and constantly makes more of other's achievements over his own.
    And you like your politics guided by evidence based policy from evidence that is questionable at best, that exists only as a result of its omissions and the creation of which is driven by the politics of the producer. Of course if you like your evidence based policy then the current tuition loans system is the bees knees to you :p
     
  20. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    "But he's such a charming man". Sorry: cult of personality.

    Check his voting record against his fine speech. Actions speek louder than the finest words.
     

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