I thought it looked like a weird number 2. The worlds worst maze. A unusual game of Tetris. I'll give you the colours though. Hate how the Swastika has become tainted by Nazis, same as the Charlie Chaplin (toothbrush) moustache.
Those of you that have decided that the Ukrainians are “the bad guys” because the presence of a nasty far right party should take a hard look at Russia and consider who they are supporting. Though Putin encourages nostalgia for the USSR and Stalin and so on, it is really on a nationalist basis. He came to power through dealing with the Chechen insurgency very brutally and in power has ensured the enrichment of those close to him both inside government and business. He seems to dislike democracy and has supported nasty regimes such as that in Belarus while invading Georgia and now the Ukraine. In short if you are looking for a “Fascist”, you might start in the Kremlin. Just one with a few Stalin portraits in his collection. Interestingly I noticed a lot of the more rabid UKIP supporters online backing him earlier as he was against the EU in the Ukraine and is nasty about gays which ticked a couple of their boxes. The “your enemy’s enemy is your friend” logic can lead people to very strange places. As things stand it looks like he will annex the Crimea which will probably not lead to war with the Ukraine, but I imagine if tanks start rolling across Ukraine to annex the Eastern regions, it’s hard to see what else you could expect the country to do but mobilize and fight. Obviously Russia is a stronger power and would prevail in the end but not without major casualties which would no doubt prompt Putin to deal with them as he did in Chechnya. I assume the US will drop the Budapest Memorandum in the shredder and issue more stern words or something and propose a UN resolution to be vetoed by Russia. Quite what to do is harder to say. Boots on the ground it’s where it’s at but I think it would start by making it clear that a in the event Russian invasion of mainland Ukraine NATO would provide intelligence and make military materiel available to the Ukrainian Government if requested and extensive economic support. What would be more useful strategically would be if the US was to restrict its restrictions on Natural Gas exports. Though the effect wouldn’t be immediate, in the medium term this would diminish Russia’s economic power over its neighbors.
Crimea will end up as Chechnya anyway if annexed, as Tatars hate Russians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
You guys are all v.knowledgeable on this subject. Makes for v.interesting reading. One overarching concern I'd have about this tearing up of a treaty proposed to promote nuclear disarmament is what this means for other countries; the likelihood that any policies relating to what is in effect 'World Policing' will ever be enforced and we are no better of than 70 years ago, except we know about it all a bit faster. I guess it falls on how truly effective economic sanctions are compared to a military threat. So far, presuming Russia understand the likely economic sanctions, what is left? Roll over... ?
A good point. Indeed the worry is that we seem to be sayign that we are not as good as our word any more. Sure no-one wants to send UK or US troops to the Ukraine, but if the Ukraine asks to be defened again an invasion citing the treaty and we refuse then it will have long term consequences for diplomacy and peace, not of which look good. Or perhaps we consider it "a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing"
Ah yes, let's put all of them on trains and send them to camps, where they can work until they die. Some won't even have to work, we'll send them to special camps where they get gassed and burned, and die instantly. We sure are a lot better than those disgusting fascist nazi's aren't we?
The US and UK have broken so many laws and gone against what other countries think too many times. Because of that we have lost our voice as a peace keeping nation. Nobody wanted us to go into Iraq. It was only us and America that thought it was a good idea, so we pretty much pissed in the face of the whole world and because of that we're ****ing hypocrites to moan at Russia. Russia were all for us going into Afghanistan. They knew it was a quagmire because they'd been there and done that. But again, nations opposed it but we just ignored it and carried on any way. America take the piss, they really do. When I lived out there I had three kids living with me. Well, not me, my father in law had a 7 bedroom house and I lived in it with my ex wife, her father, his new fancy woman (that he'd left his wife for) and her three kids. Any way their father served in the first Iraq war. He then went back for a short while before becoming ill. Long story short, it turned out that he was sitting in a tank full of uranium tipped shells. He had a bad dose of cancer, all up and down his spine and eventually died. It would seem that 'we' use these shells to pierce the armour on tanks. However, these shells cause cancer. But that's OK because it's 'murica and her lap dog. This is part of the reason why I can't stand politicians. Any of the ****ers. They're all hypocrites and liars.. End of the day Russia have some business to tend to. Whether it's right or wrong? isn't for us to decide. We've already set the rules, IE - there are none. /Fallout 3.. And war,war never changes......
Exactly, take North Korea for example, they can take one look at the Ukraine and see that any promises the world makes in return for giving up nuclear weapons are worth less than the paper they are printed on.
@andy Well I agree to an extent. It seems like we waylay rules and regulations at will for whatever reason. And by we, I mean the entire human race and all its faces. I can't pin it solely on any one group. So are we to be more honest then? Everyman for themselves? I don't think so. From a personal standpoint it just seems to me that the world state is too far away right now. Moral singularity - to the extent possible; what is universally good anyway - seems to flow and eb backwards, forwards and nowhere. So when do we begin to uphold the rules? Never? Is that the only fair road left to tread?
So the US and UK should express no opinion on Foreign affairs because of Iraq and tell the Ukrain we are renaging on our treaty obligations but other countries and the Ukraine is Russia's business despite what happened in Georgia. And the Ukrainians? Presumably to you they people in a far-away country between of whom we know nothing.
I mean that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We do, as a country, what is in our best interests (usually for the rich people who don't want to catch lower class poggeritis from minions like ourselves) so Russia will do the same. As will America, they'd **** us at the drop of a hat if it meant money.. So yes. Standing up and condemning what Russia do is incredibly hypocritical seeing as we marched into Iraq, against international laws, and proceeded to bomb it before ****ing it completely. We made the rules then (well, G dubbleyer did we just licked his botty crack) and Russia are making the rules now. Hague needs a slap. Silly little bald twunt.
Ok so basically any country that does anything that the US and UK is opposed to is fine by you regardless of how nasty the regime is and what they do. Well That's a bloody ignorant attitude but I guess you like the freedoms of democratic russia over our terrible regime here.
I'd love to see you sit down with Hague and express your opinions. Invasion is invasion - there is nothing more to it than that. What the UK/US did in the middle east is of no relevance whatsoever, even if it was illegal (which is up for debate). What Russia has done definitely is illegal, with no shadow of doubt. They are occupying a country which was no threat to anyone else, without agreement from the G8/UN/NATO. The fire they are playing with is so friggin big, I don't get why anyone thinks standing by and watching it is an acceptable thing to do. Their actions directly question some of the fundamental things that several nuclear armed countries have chosen to agree on. All the efforts that have gone into world wide disarmament of nuclear weapons become very flimsy all of a sudden when one of the countries who are key to progress says "do you know what, I want to annexe an island I promised I would never **** with in the goal of world peace, the price being direct intervention from the other nuclear armed countries in the world". Now those other nuclear armed countries really, really don't want to get involved because it's basically going to war. But they are also having their hands tied to ensure that the rest of the world doesn't just break down when it comes to the peace agreements over nuclear weapons. So tell me, Mr. World Politics Genius, why, for an island the size of Rwanda, would you consider threatening relative world peace, without even considering a peaceful debate over the matter?
Breaking News Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26413953
Depressing news. The Russians must want this over quickly to minimise the economic pounding they're taking and prevent any question of their control of The Crimea.
@specofdust: Economic punding is inevitable, because now no one will trust Russia in anything. EU will pull stop using Russian gas and oil ASAP, investors are going to pull out of Russia, there are going to be economic and political sanctions against Russia. Until now, it was reversible - after they fire the first shot they are the agressor and they will have to pay war reparations and face sanctions. Edit: Russians also lost a chance to expand the Temelin nuclear power plant in Czech Republic, because Czechs don't consider Russians as reliable partner anymore. And it will go only worse from there for Russia. Enjoy Crimea, Putin.
This is far too optimistic. There has been far too much optimism in predictions made in general around this entire crisis. Europe is as reliant on Rusisan gas as they are on European money.
they are already going to Norway to increase supplies and reduce Russia gas - sell of the ruble by the trillion and bankrupt Russia.
@specofdust: Well, ASAP doesn't mean immediately. Just as soon as possible... Norway is already providing pretty much the same amount of gas as Russia to EU. And a piece of history for some of you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident . Replace Poles with Ukrainans, Nazis with Russians and you got the current situation in Crimea. The only difference between the situation back then and now is that there was no need to actually kill anyone, it is enough that propaganda says so...
Norwegian gas production can't increase much though, certainly not in any meaningful way related to stopping the use of Russian gas imports. Norway is currently providing as much gas to us as Russia. All NS sectors are past peak and are producing less and less gas as times go by, and these things can not just be magically increased. If we desire to stop using Russian gas we must first find affordable gas from elsewhere, and huge huge quantities of it.
