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News Ultra high-end graphics are "a terrible mistake"

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Tim S, 11 Mar 2008.

  1. theevilelephant

    theevilelephant Minimodder

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    id pick a pc any day. I think you need to factor in that many people need a pc anyway, so shelling out an extra £300-£400 ontop of the cost of a pc gets them the pc they need AND a gaming platform.
     
  2. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    Exaclty, almost everyone today has a PC in the home. why not just buy a gaming PC instead of console and PC?
     
  3. Gunsmith

    Gunsmith Maximum Win

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    Pc gaming is gaming for enthusiasts. its the same the R/C car market, kids go and buy one off the shelf in toys r us and men go and build there own, the final objective is the same but one audience is more mature then the other.

    For the record I have a Tri-SLI box at home that sucks more then 3A just switching the thing on. Why do I do it? Because it is UNIQUE, I can do EVERYTHING on it, I BUILT IT and it is MINE. Like many other PC gamers /enthusiasts; am bloody PROUD of what I’ve accomplished.

    The worst mistake ever to happen in the industry was in my opinion giving consoles the ability to go online when its actual place is under the TV with some mates around.
     
  4. Shielder

    Shielder Live long & prosper!

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    But the point is that after a year, your £700-1000 PC will start to struggle with the maxed settings that you are used to, so you'll have to lower settings or suffer reduced frame rates. Whereas a console, which you got for ~£300 will still be able to show everything the games designer wanted you to see, with no reduction in image quality or frame rates.

    Remember that a TV only has a refresh rate of 25-30 fps (I can't actually remember)and a fixed resolution, so all they have to do is make sure that the console refreshes at that speed.

    How many PC games do you know that allow more than one person to play at once on the same computer? Last time I looked, most of the consoles have 4 controller ports.

    How many ordinary consumers care about the "mods and customization u get on PC". All they do is go down to PC world and get a salesman to tell them that the internet will fly on the latest and greatest PC that will fit in their budget.

    I think you are losing sight of the problem here. A good games PC can cost upwards of £500 (£1000 if you want the latest and greatest). That's £200 more than a PS3 (I think). That's 4 PS3 games worth right there (or a budget office PC). Those games will be played at max resolution from the start and any future games for the PS3 won't require you to upgrade. Once you have spent your £300 on a PS3, that's it. Once you have spent your £500+ on the PC you can bet that you'll be thinking of upgrading the GPU/CPU/mem/sound when the next "must have" game comes out. So you've got more expense and more complication just to play a game.

    We accept that. Joe Public just want to buy a game and play it, without having to upgrade as well. That is why consoles are more popular. Let's face it, how many PC titles does your local supermarket sell? Mine sells the latest PS2/3, Wii and XBox/XBox360 games. It sells 4 budget combo packs of games for the PC (and those are crap!) That alone should tell you that PC gaming is no longer selling the high volumes that supermarkets find profitable.

    The first part of your post hits the nail on the head. I know an accountant who is going to get his daughter a Wii. He wouldn't even consider getting her a PC because it is too expensive (and he is a partner in the firm). He would argue that you get less with a PC because it is so much harder to use than a console (plug in game and start on the console: plug in game, select resolution, see if it plays well, reselect resolution, DX version or OpenGL, FSAA level, AF level etc etc on a PC). The only area that the PC excels at is non-gaming use. If you want to game, you either need to spend hundreds on a high end pc or get a console for half the price. I know which most people would choose.

    Andy

    Oh yeah, Some games should never be ported to the console. Flight sims spring to mind. I can't wait to fire up IL2 on my new rig (when I get the bits put together that is...)
     
  5. sc4mpi

    sc4mpi OG watercooler

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    In my opinion it comes down to 3 things enjoyment, cost and ease of use.

    Enjoyment: if you enjoy playing a game for its gameplay your not going to care what the gfx look like. Some people only like playing with a keyboard and mouse for fps etc because they have always used one. if you find someone that has had consoles all there life there not going to want a keyboard and mouse there going to want a gamepad. then the question arrises what if you gave the same games to the consoles and allowed people to use a keyboard and mouse. im pretty sure most of the middle market gamers would swap to a console there know would work with anygame they buy off the self and they dont haft to worry about upgrading 2 months down the line to play there next game.

    Cost: Lets face it most of the people here on bit are pc enthusiasts and have built at least one pc sometime in there life and yes you can buy a mid-high spec pc for about 600-700 notes, but a average joe will walk into pc world buy a pc for there amazing deals only 299, then pick up a game off the shelf go home and find its either a slideshow or wont run at all. so then they go and invest in a console for 200quid that works first time and they dont need to fiddle with drivers etc.

    Ease of use: Iv been going to lan partys and lan events for the last 5-6 years and iv had pcs or all diffrent sizes etc. But its still a hastle and i get that feeling everytime i go of "ow i realy cba to unpack this all cuase i no i got to plug it all in again!" . The other point is pcs realy wernt ment for lugging about in the back of cars especialy when they are full of water and have silly sized heasinks. The other option is somthing like a laptop but they cost in the region of 2k for a high end spec one and they cant be upgraded easily. were as for some fun with ya mates take your games and controlers round there house crack open a beer and play somthing on a console for me will win everytime.
     
  6. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    And? we all know Pc is not a casual market? No one is debating that. Pc is a niche market, a big one at that for gaming, no one is arguing consoles ae more mass market. for all your wrote, not one thing had anything to do with the discussion. Yes, we all know consoles ae more popular, what is your point? They always have? PC gaming is not dying however, it is growing, if u read the links I posted u would see that.

    I think u have lost sight of the entire discussion. Pc is a different market, and not going anywhere, no one said PC is going to try and compete with the wii audience, doesn't want to. What part of Pc is not for casual gamers don't u understand. No one is even arguing what u are saying.

    Casual gamers do not care about mods, but PC gamers do, and it is well worth the upgrading and hassle as PC gaming offers the deepest gaming experience for those who game on PC.casual cheaper market of the consoles, it doesn't need to.
     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2008
  7. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    Someone actually has some comprehension to realise this, good post. Pc gaming is totally seperate from console gaming, it aims at a different market, not the 5 year olds asking daddies for Wii's. The Pc market is large, amd growing, has nothing to do with consoles being more popular, they always have been. PC gaming s for people who have PC know how.
     
  8. sc4mpi

    sc4mpi OG watercooler

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  9. sc4mpi

    sc4mpi OG watercooler

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    oops double post :p
     
  10. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    Not everyone has people to sit around and play games with, i am 30, have 2 kids, I know zero people who would even come over and play games, for me, many friends are a longs way away, so it is better to hook up online on Pc and play. everyone is different, some enjoy the alone time and play a good PC game. either way, once again, no one is even debating why or if consoles are more popular, Pc is a different market, get it, different, totally seperarte.
     
  11. sc4mpi

    sc4mpi OG watercooler

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    I Dont think people are dening its a diffrent market, but its capturing the middle class gamers from pcs over to consoles ,there ones that dont have 500 quid every 3 months to upgrade just to play the next hyped game which in all honesty wasnt worth the cash cause it only takes a day to comeplete most of the new games my have swanky gfx but they realy dont have the gameplay and overall grip that kept you playing like the old ones did.
     
  12. Shielder

    Shielder Live long & prosper!

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    Leper, the pc market is declining. Sorry, but it is.

    I wish it were otherwise cos I love my PC games. It is the constant upgrade path that is the problem. If PC gaming was such a big market as you suggest, then the PC games section of GAME etc would fill more than 2 shelf sections out of 20. The rest are split between Wii, PS3 and Xbox. My supermarket would sell the latest PC games as well as the latest console games. You get my drift? Yes, there may well be PC games in development, but what hardware will I have to buy, on top of what I've already bought, to get the desired experience? With a console I wouldn't have to buy anything more than another controller or a subscription to online gaming.

    My local Gamestation has one shelf unit of PC games. How is that a massive market?

    sc4, I agree. it is the middle section of gamers that are moving to the consoles from the pc. Mainly because of ease of use and the cost of playing the latest and greatest games.

    PC gaming offers more immersion, yes, but at what cost? My current computer has cost me about £700 over the last 4 years, in hardware alone. My new computer will cost me even more because of the upgradability that I'm building into my new rig. With a console I don't need to worry about that. When a new console comes out, I buy it, and that's that.

    Yes the PC and the console are different markets, but with games being written for both formats, and playing very well, where is the benefit of spending (much) more on a PC over a console?

    CoD4 (the game I'm looking forward to playing on my new rig the most) being a prime example.

    Andy
     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2008
  13. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    It has always been that way, and console games are worse for length, that is where mods come on. It is not capturing anything from PC, as Pc gaming sales are growing, not decreasing. 500 quid every 3 months? Get real man, that is a big load of turd. Do u even know hardware? That is the type of ignorant comment i am talking about, U do not need to spend remotely close to that, not near as often, hell, hardware does not even come out that fast. The 8800 series is 1,.5 years old and still going, with no new GPUs out yet. I spend that much every 2 years, mayeb less by the time I sell my old stuff, and still play all games on high.
     
  14. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    Ignorant, read the links i psoted, Pc gaming grew last year by a significant margin, and is slated to do so again this year. Do not believe everything u read, especially from the biased console sites who use uselless US retail NDP sales numbers as a picture of the enitre industry.

    http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/02/20/gdc_long_live_pc_gaming/

    u really shoud research before posting such nonsense. 12% growth on 07, 14% in 08. Over 2 billion in revenue. yeah a 2 billion dollar business and growing is declining, explain that one.

    http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/02/21/gdc_will_steam_add_movies_music/

    tell valve it is declining, or GSc gameworld, or CD project, or star dock or blizzard. Get real, it is growing.


    a game that requires the latest hardware in crysis can sell 1.4 million in 3 months, u know the NDP numbers are useless.

    educate yourself before posting, The us retail market is not good, other then that Pc gaming is growing, the US is not the centre of the universe, and many games are being digitally purchased now.
     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2008
  15. [USRF]Obiwan

    [USRF]Obiwan What's a Dremel?

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    The fact is....

    The PC survived ANY console since the first PC was made.
    The best games are on the PC.
    The best gamegraphics are on the PC.
    Most innovated game technologys are on the PC
    I dont have to choose between br and dvd-hd. I can put both in the PC (if i want to)
    I can do oozes of other stuff on the PC then games.
    I can take my PC apart without breaking so called 'hardware' licences.
    I can saw my PC in 2, mod the hell out if it, and it still looks nicer the any console.
    I can play any video format based on any codec on the PC, and can view it on any display type available.
    If something breaks I can replace it myself.
    I can use mice and keyboard or any other exotic device on the PC. (even stupid console gamepads)
    I can emulate ANY historic console or arcade machine on my PC.
    I can attach a printer to the PC
    And do about 5000 other things but have to keep the list short...



    So tell me what a console can do?
     
  16. sc4mpi

    sc4mpi OG watercooler

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    last time i checked 500 quid was the price of intels top end cpu and iv seen people upgrade em everytime they come out just to stay at the peak of performance. and people buy em to play these new games to see all the spankly gfx but the honest fact is there dont warrent it. the games arnt good enough and dont last long enough to warrent spending huge amounts just for a single game. and yes pc game sales are increasing cause more and more people have a pc as a household item but how many of them can actuly run it and stay intrested imo. people may buy em but it doesnt mean to say people are still playing em.
     
  17. Bluephoenix

    Bluephoenix Spoon? What spoon?

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    one of the main differences that I have not seen brought up yet is that consoles are a closed system, while the PC only requires a decent understanding of programming to create a game.

    as obiwan said, you do not have hardware licences that make upgrading impossible, and you also do not have backwards compatibility issues with older games (I play a couple win95 games on vista, but PS1 games don't run on a PS3)

    the other part of it is that deployment ultimately costs less as the game understands that all it needs to talk to is the API, and anything beyond is the user's domain, so drivers ultimately have no impact on deployment costs. the medium is also very well known and not under a paid license, unlike the protected X360 or PS3 formats.

    finally, the one thing the PC excels at is community-generated content. because of the open nature of the PC, anyone with the right tools can add content to a game and then distribute it relatively easily for others to enjoy (a la oblivion) tell me, what mods are there for oblivion on the 360 besides the official DLCs?
     
  18. sc4mpi

    sc4mpi OG watercooler

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    Tell me what on that list a 200 quid pc cannot do.

    The best games are on the PC.
    The best gamegraphics are on the PC
    ^^ there opinions mate.

    Pc games also has the largest number of cheats and hackers.
    pc games also has the biggest number of piracy (killing the industy)


    ask someone that likes consoles what they think. (im a pc man btw although i do own a 360)

    i think this thread is more about not what a pc can do but the people that buy a pc and then buy a console to play games over it
     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2008
  19. Lepermessiah

    Lepermessiah What's a Dremel?

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    Bs, for one, they do not get released every 3 months, nor do u need to upgrade everytime something is released, that is baloney. Spend the money for one game? u on crack? there are tonnes of games for PC.

    A Core 2 duo can be had for 150, as well as a 9600 gt or 8800GT for $200. U can go 1-2 years before u need to upgrade, yes if u wany u CAN buy every time something new is out, but u don't need to, that is a retarded argument, and shows yuor ignorance when it comes to hardware. Nvidia sold 2 million 8800's in 1 year, plus u have AMD's cards and the X1900's and 7900's, so, it is safe to say m,any people can play those games. get real, if people were buying games and couldn't play them, they would not keep buying Pc games, u have any facts to back that up? didn't think so, mindless dribble from someone who has no idea what he is talking about. just becaue it is possible to spend the money is irrelevant, u don't have to, it can be fairly cheap if u know what u are doing, which u don't.

    U can get 4 Gb ram now fo $100. Like I saod, anyone sayingu need to spend $500 every 3 months is ignorant and has no clue.

    It is worth it for many, thus the sales of hardware and games prove, don't let facts get in the way though. who are u to decide if it is worth it to someone. i bought a 360, worst mistake i ever made, all of its games came on PC, were better on PC, had mods. play oblivion on 360 then PC, u know why it is worth it. If it isn't for u, fine, don't pretend to know what is worth it to many.
     
  20. Shielder

    Shielder Live long & prosper!

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    Obiwan. I'm not disputing most of what you say, but:

    My N64 is still going, my AMD K6 would probably still be going if I had a use for it. Both are no longer available, so what is your point?
    Agreed. Some of them are also on the consoles. :(
    Agreed, but only if you keep on spending on new graphics cards every 6 months (8800GTX is the exception)
    Erm, Wii controller?
    PS3 has BR built in. It will cost me oodles of dosh (?£200?) to put in a BR player on my PC.
    As for the rest, I agree. The console really is only designed to play games. The PC has been adapted from a humble office machine for typists and accountants, to being a powerful all purpose system that can calculate quantum interactions in a star.

    The point I've been trying to make all along (Leper's insults notwithstanding) is that it costs more to game on the PC than it does on a console and the market is biased against the PC (I didn't think my Gamestation even HAD PC games until I found them stuffed into the darkest corner of the shop).

    I disagree with you Leper, in that I do think that the market for PC games is declining (your links to one website only are not conclusive proof, sorry), but my view is based on what I can see in the shops, lots and lots of console games and very few PC games. What is going to sell more, the console games or the PC games?

    Andy
     
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