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Build Advice Upgrade after 5 years - £1400 budget

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by logan'srun, 22 Oct 2012.

  1. logan'srun

    logan'srun following the footsteps of giants

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    Yes Yes I know, another one of those threads. . .but please bear with me.

    Given that BT puts out a new Hardware guide every couple of months or so, I thought I'd ask the regulars if their set-ups are still valid or if I should re-think a little.

    I have a 5 year old C2D/9800gtx+ system that has been chugging along and not giving me any grief, but with the slew of games that are being released it's about time that I changed the whole kitncaboodle.

    For the cooling I have a PA120.1 and 120.2 from my current build I was gonna re-use or sell them both and get a new 120.3 since I want to gain a little head space in my case (or get a new case) something better fitted for 600rpm fans. Fans and pump I have as well as everything else (ie tubes, compression fittings, res etc ) but what I will need is a compatible full cover block for the GPU (which means a reference card) and a new CPU cooler.

    The main use of the rig is gaming, but I also use it for work (and so does the wife), it's our main Home theatre player (stream via XBMC) and some light encoding and video editing.

    So, let's begin and see where we land. I haven't included a new case since I want to try and use the one I have, and I'm gonna include my PSU as well since I think it should suffice (please correct me if I'm wrong though).

    CPU: Dilemma 1 - do I stay with BT's recommendation and go Z77 and take the 3770k or do I change socket to X79 and get a 3820 instead? Since I plan on keeping this for the next 3-5 years, it doesn't really matter if it's socket 2011 or not. I'm not a serial upgrader.
    Motherboard: Again, if we stay with BT I think the Maximus 5 gene is perfect, but I have no idea about a good 2011 board. I'm not an extreme overclocker so won't be using all the high end features, but since I have the WC kit I run a moderate OC that can run 24/7. Once I have the OC dialed in, I won't touch it again.
    GPU: GTX 680 seems a no brainer
    PSU: Seasonic SII 620w I own this and wasn't planning on buying a new one, but with a 5 yr old PSU, should I? Or is it not enough to power the above?
    SSD: I'm torn between 3 models and perhaps I'm just nit-picking, but I'm looking at Samsung 830 256gb, Samsung 840 Pro 256gb, or lastly the OCZ Vertex 4 256gb. Again, not running OC tests or anything of that matter and just want a reliable SSD.
    HD: Please recommend something quiet in the 2TB range. Given that I'll be using this for most of my storage given the small SSD , it'll be the media disk as well as any extra programs. I've been toying with getting a NAS for a while, so having a HD in the chassis could be a moot point.
    case: Here is my v1000 which I'm thinking now I can just use again. Otherwise I'll need a new case but I might as well save somewhere.
    Memory: Corsair 8gb 1600mhz
    GPU Full Block: EK FC68GTX +
    CPU Block: either the EK Supremacy or the Swiftech Apogee HD

    Whew. So that's it. Feel free to recommend something else, especially if I'm just throwing money away but given that it's a long term investment I think it's pretty good.

    Appreciate the help!
     
  2. MightyBenihana

    MightyBenihana Do or do not, there is no try

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    Changing the 680 to a 670 will get you either a better cooler and about a £40 saving or about and £80 saving on stock coolers with no real loss on frames rates at standard. Underwater however I'm not sure how they measure up when pushed.

    HDD: I go with WD as they are reliable and fast although they cost more than Seagate alternatives. How important is cost vs reliability to you?

    SSD: the 840 is faster than the 830 but how much you would notice this in real world use is debatable. The 840 is rated for more IOPs however but I have not heard of any problems with the 830 series in this regard (yet). Both would be suitable but there is the £60 price difference. Just to put that in perspective that could get you another 128GB drive.

    PSU: What PSU do you have now? There are other brands which are cheaper than Seasonic but are still made by Seasonic too.

    Case: if youre happy with it and it ain't broke.....
     
  3. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    If you are watercooling you can buy EK MOSFET blocks for the M5G.

    RE: PSU. If it works and has all the connectors you need, why change? Only for more efficiency - the difference will probably be Bronze to Gold/Platinum now.

    Memory - plop in 2x8GB. You're multi-yearing and the price isn't that much more iirc.
     
  4. mm vr

    mm vr The cheesecake is a lie

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    LGA2011 is not worth it in my opinion -- you pay twice the price for the same performance. (Note that you need the 3930K for overclocking.) I find it hard to justify the 3770K as well over the 3570K.

    I have the Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H motherboard and it happily does 4.5GHz. That would save you 500kr.

    Your Seasonic is fine for this build. It's a quality PSU so it'll last for quite a while. An 80 Plus Gold unit would likely be so expensive that it would never pay itself back in the electric bill.

    The Samsung 840 Pro is much more expensive than the Samsung 830, but is the performance increase worth it? I don't know. As for Samsung 830 versus OCZ Vertex 4, at those prices it's a no-brainer. They are pretty equal in performance and the Samsung is cheaper.

    Maybe it's worth looking for low profile RAM? Won't matter much with water cooling, but if they are very similarly priced, why not. Then it won't cause issues if you ever need to put it in an air cooler rig.
     
  5. aNuclearPidgeon

    aNuclearPidgeon Member

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  6. TheDodoKiller

    TheDodoKiller Active Member

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  7. Jay88018

    Jay88018 New Member

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  8. logan'srun

    logan'srun following the footsteps of giants

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    PSU was listed in the OP, it's a Seasonic 620 bronze rated. It's still solid.

    My thoughts about the case too, I was just thinking of going slightly larger to have an easier time with the WC. But nothing wrong with my case.

    I've never seen the point of WC the Mofsets and since I won't be doing any xtreme overclocking it just seems a little over kill.

    Memory: noted. Checked prices and not much difference between the kits.

    Hmm, I hadn't thought of the 3570k actually. That would give me a cooler chip, save a 1000kr (£94) at a slight performance decrease. I will bear this in mind. However, the difference between the 3820 and the 3570k is only 500kr, but the real difference would be from the M5G to a 2011 socket MB. There I would save at least another 500kr (£47) . Saving on the CPU+MB would actually justify the 680 later.

    SSD: Samsung 830 is the choice then. Most of you agreed on that SSD.

    It's interesting that you mention this as the difference in price is good, about 1100kr (€103). However the bundle that they offer in Sweden IMHO is very weak: Dirt Showdown, Deus Ex and Nexuiz. On top of that, I would need to get a more expensive block as well as a single slot adapter which cuts into the savings. As I have no interest in 2 of the 3 games, I'm still leaning towards the 680.

     
  9. mikeyman198

    mikeyman198 Lets pretend this is hilarious.

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    This is an idea of what you could get, although this includes a new case + PSU. Bear in mind the mobo also has a waterblock on the northbridge heatsinks as stock.
     
  10. mm vr

    mm vr The cheesecake is a lie

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    £80 extra for the 3770K with 100MHz more and hyperthreading is not worth it over the 3570K.

    Additionally, what's the point of spending £220 on an extreme motherboard when you can get the same overclock with an £80 board? Even if you needed SLI support, you wouldn't have to spend that much at all.
     
  11. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    It's not just about the overclock though, it's about everything else you get on it. Why do CPC constantly rate the GENE in their buyers guides for medium-to-high end? Does it make for a balanced PC to watercool an 80quid board? By that extension he should cut back everything and air cool and buy a 60 quid, "good enough" case as well.
     
  12. logan'srun

    logan'srun following the footsteps of giants

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    nah nah nah, we're heading in the right direction but missing the forest for the trees.

    I like the Gene as it was a small factor board that would fit better in a v1000, plus it's a good all around board.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the Rampage 5, but it's an ETX board and the v1000 accepts max an ATX board. Plus I don’t feel the need to WC the mofets. I’d rather stick with the 3570k and save the cash and put that towards the 680 instead. I don’t see what the difference would be between the 3770k and the 3570k as they look identical on paper. Or maybe I’m just blind.

    Bindi – if you’re not so keen on the M5G, what would you suggest then instead from Asus that’s ATX or mATX?

    Lastly, I’m toying with the idea of getting a new case now, I really like the Silverstone FT02B and I’m seeing some great WC versions over on Xtreme. . .
     
  13. mm vr

    mm vr The cheesecake is a lie

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    A £60 case is good enough if it offers everything you need. That is unlikely in this case. On the other hand, the £80 motherboard I suggested likely supports everything necessary.

    With cases, build quality also plays a role, while all motherboards use the same polymer capacitors, plastic connectors and solder.
     
  14. kissinger

    kissinger Member

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    That is fairly impressive, but you have to bear in mind the 7970 they are using is the pre-overclocked version, so I'd like to see a comparison between that and an OC'd 680 to be fair.

    Regarding the OP, I can tell you that the Asus Gene-Z is an absolutely fantastic board. You can tell that it's all quality components and excellent build quality just by picking the thing up. It's really in a different class. And in performance terms it's, as you would expect, great too. Mine's never given me a problem and the auto-OC software on it is actually very good. Got mine to 4.8 stable in the space of 10 minutes! I love this motherboard. The only issue you will have is if you have a 3-slot GPU, as you will block the other GPU slot. The micro-ATX form factor is fine with me too. It's smaller than most boards, but only really length-wise, so it still feels big enough, but it gives you that extra bit of space to make installation, etc easier.

    Regarding a GPU, 670, 680 and 7970 are all great cards so I'd say just go with whichever one you can get the best deal on.
     
  15. mm vr

    mm vr The cheesecake is a lie

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    Well, I can tell you that the Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H is a fantastic board. Performance is likely identical as with a more expensive board, and even if there's a difference, it's tiny enough that £50 is better spent elsewhere. It has never given me any problems.

    It doesn't have auto-OC software, but to me that sounds a bit dubious (what kind of voltages does it apply?), particularly when considering how easy it is to overclock manually.

    As for build quality... What does it mean with regard to motherboards? What in particular is different between a cheap and an expensive board? I've never heard of a motherboard dying due to wear or poor build quality (except 10 years back when polymer capacitors weren't mainstream).

    If you're into SLI or CrossFire though, then you will need to buy a more expensive board.
     
  16. kissinger

    kissinger Member

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    Better quality components, better put together, more VRMs, better cooling, better quality control, better testing, more features such as GPU.DIMM post, etc.
     
  17. mm vr

    mm vr The cheesecake is a lie

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    I bet even the cheapest motherboards use the exact same capacitors, resistors, connectors and solder as the expensive ones. They are also put together on the same production lines.

    More VRMs doesn't always mean a better board. It's a matter of diminishing returns. Modern Intel CPUs also pull less power than earlier models. Any Z77 board likely has enough voltage regulation components to accommodate an overclocked 95W Sandy Bridge, and in this case a 77W Ivy Bridge will be installed. The OP is not interested in extreme overclocking either.

    Recent chipsets consume very little power. Cooling them is not an issue.

    With poor quality control and testing a manufacturer would just be shooting themselves in the foot as buyers will RMA dead products.

    More features doesn't mean better unless you are actually going to use the features. This precisely is my point. Get the cheapest board that has all the features you need.
     
  18. kissinger

    kissinger Member

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    Nah, that's like saying there's no difference between a no brand 680 and a Matrix Platinum 680. I know which one I'd rather have. What it comes down to at the end of the day is price. Is the extra quality/features worth the money? In the case of the Gene-Z I would definitely say it is, given that you can get one for around £140.

    And they don't just put on additional features for the sake of it. If you've ever had a component go wrong and you need to figure out whether it's your GPU, your memory, your board - whatever - you'd be glad for some of the features on the Gene-Z. Likewise the auto-OC features, the better cooling, the better onboard sound, etc, etc.
     
  19. mm vr

    mm vr The cheesecake is a lie

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    There isn't any difference. They are made out of the same GPU and same capacitors, resistors and solder. The most expensive ones are factory overclocked, and you'll have to decide whether that feature is worth the price premium.

    Some graphics card manufacturers offer longer warranties than others, but that's a moot point in this case as even the cheapest motherboards have a 2-3 year warranty, just as long as the more expensive ones.

    Actually, now that I checked, I can point out that the GA-Z77-D3H I suggested has a 3 year warranty, which is longer than the 2 year warranty on the Maximus IV Gene-Z (or the £220 Maximus V Formula for that matter). Even the £50 ASRock B75 board I recently bought for a budget build has a 2 year warranty.

    My point is that the quality is the same. You should look at the features you need.
     
    Last edited: 25 Oct 2012
  20. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    It's just totally not this at all sorry. Boards cost what they cost because of the hardware and R&D they contain, cost down boards are cost down because components are removed and cheapened. That's well-established fact. They don't just magic up a $200 margin.

    logan - I was voting in favor OF the GENE, not Extreme. Extreme would not be useful or needed in this case.

    This is also completely wrong sorry. Not just on MATRIX but any high-end brand for ex: EVGA/MSI/Sapphire with custom PCB. The VRMs and hardware are different, the PCB is different often more layers AND a redesign. GPUs are binned to pick out the best ones and GDDR5 chips often upgraded. Quality can go both up AND down on a redesign to reach price points or overclocked performance levels. How you VALUE this difference is different to saying "they are just the same", which is purchase justification, not the truth.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 25 Oct 2012

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