Hi guys! I have a reasonable system (i think) that I built 2/3 years ago. With all the new games that are coming out (namely BF3) I want to upgrade a bit so it will last me another 2 years (until i finish uni). HOWEVER, it has been a mighty long time since I did any real reading on components and you all seem far more knowledgeable than I with what to upgrade without causing too much of a bottleneck and still hitting my benchmark. My rig so far is: 1 CMASTER HAF922 CASE WITH 20CM 75.69 87.04 1 Intel Core i5 750 2.66G s1156 130.15 149.67 1 1TB SAMSUNG SATA2 HD103UJ 32MB 48.49 55.76 1 650W NorthQ NQ-4775-650B PSU 59.95 68.94 1 Corsair 6GB XMS3(3x2GB) DDR3 1600 83.12 95.59 1 1GB XFX HD4890 GDDR5 PCI-E 118.00 135.70 1 Asrock P55 EXTREME MoBo 93.55 107.58 The benchmark I'm looking to achieve will be to play BF3 on max settings (on 1680x1050) without the framerate dropping when everything is exploding and **** hits the fan. My budget is around £500. If some of you have experience with great, affordable components, that's exactly what i'm after! I assume that if I spent more on newer components and didn't watercool, I would get more bang per buck; but I want to learn about watercooling for myself...like a new project? So I don't mind spending a bit extra if it's for me to learn new things! My questions to you are: 1) Could you recommend a decent watercooling system for my case. I have done some background reading and have decided I'd like it as quiet as possible and all internal. I'm unable to find a waterblock for my graphics card but am I looking in the wrong places? I tried scan and ebuyer? :/ (really good informative link on watercooling here... http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/water-cooling/33772-water-cooling-guide-beginners-18.html) 2) What parts would you upgrade and why? I'd rather upgrade as little as possible, and then overclock to get the performance. I understand I will probally need a new PSU and either more 4890s or a better card/s. (my mobo supports 3) 3) Anyone want to buy my old stuff? Thanks in advance! Aaron
i'm not familiar with northq psu's, so that would be my first look. then the gpu. ur ram is puzzling as well, might want to sell that and get a 2x4gb dual channel kit. don't know about how well that case will handle w/c with all components internal, so i'll let someone else comment on that. so, a good hx 650 corsair psu will do well, and a gtx 570 or 560 sli'd if the budget allows...maybe a 6950 if they are better bang for the buck where you are.
Yeah, I ordered the wrong RAM and was traveling at the time so couldn't return it. It's meant for triple channel or something. I know NorthQ isn't a huge brand but it had decent reviews at the time but I'm unsure is 650w will suffice as I'm not sure how much power a watercooling system uses, and I'll be upgrading the gpu too. :/ I guess I might upgrade the PSU to about 850w in that case, changing the ram to dual channel 8gb, adding another graphics card (or two), or changing them if I can't find a waterblock for it and then hoping someone would help me with overclocking. Oh and that's a good point. I'm in London so stuff more expensive and I can't go to "home depot" and get all these things americans can for so cheap!
+1 for this, I would say get a 580, as it would last you longer probably, but I reckon a 570 would be fine, and you could always add another in sli later and overclock it As for watercooling I would suggest checking out bloody Pete's watercooling log/how to guide http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=201254&highlight=watercooling+log, also would you be wanting to cool gpu and cpu? and will you be overclocking the cpu? I guess you will be eventually, so as trig said I think you may struggle to get everything in your case, therefore I would suggest, the Xigmatek Elysium, its a hell of a lot of case for the money and could easily fit in everything you need, all for £140 smackers! (I'm assuming your in the UK) and I've just looked up a picture of the HAF and I'm almost positive you wouldn't be able to get what you need in as theres not enough of a gap between the roof and the motherboard to get a decent thickness rad and some fans in, perhaps you could get one in the front where that 200mm? Fan is, but that would involve alot of work, and while trying to keep you within budget the Elysium is about the best case you can buy for the money if you want to do watercooling, Coolermaster 690 II Advanced, could also be an option, as I believe theres a room in the roof for a 240mm rad. A list of parts you'd need for a basic loop, would be: CPU block, GPU block (not sure if you want to watercooled the gpu as well) Pump Reservoir Tubing Fittings (either barb or compression fittings) Radiator Fans Now you can get some very reasonable kits EK kits I believe, from Scan or Special tech for around the £150 mark, these come with everything you need (as far as I know) Apart from coolant (so you can choose it yourself) they also come with barb fittings, now there's nothing wrong with barbs, but I personally don't trust them and I also prefer the chunky look of compression fittings which is what I shall be using for my watercooling loop Also a HX 650W would be plenty for your system, even with all the watercooling gubbins hooked up, obviously if you want to Sli two 570's in future for instance, then I would agree with getting something like a AX 850W, but that is a large chunk of your budget gone already. edit: also the ek kits wouldn't (i don't think any kit) actually includes a gpu block, so you'd have to buy that separately, but be careful if your buying an EK gpu block and its nickel plated as they've just had issues with there nickel plating, hope that all helps
Uhm, I don't know your idea of "America" but no one watercools out of Home Depot... Anyways I wouldn't trust that PSU regardless it being 650W. Rest of the system isn't bad so GPU would be my first priority, 560/570 or 6950 are good bets and fix the RAM like trig mentionned. Watercooling-wise well I'm not sure how it fits in your budget, even a Swiftech H20 220 kit here is $300 and would probably be pretty equivalent if you built custom, doesn't leave you much for GPU and anything else. I honestly don't think you need it anyway, upgrade the hardware first, do some research in the meantime and worry about water after you've got nothing left to upgrade?
That's really helpful! Thanks so much! I would be looking at cooping the gpu too. In regards to fitting the radiator. Other people have either mounted it ontop or used a slimmer radiator and fans. If I were to use a slimer radiator and fans, should I add another radiator on the back fan? Is there a way I can use that just for the CPU? :/ I'm unsure on the loop right now. Here is an example where he took out the hard drive bays, however I've seen somewhere that you can mount the pump in the optical drive bays easily as well as put a fan there as it's all mesh. I really don't want to buy a new case. I understand what you're saying but i'd rather put a radiator ontop of the case (fan underneath-inside) and run the tubes through the provided holes at the back. Whe I said home depot, I meant that you can buy a lot of tools/parts to help mod your system. In a lot fo the examples of watercooling for my case, they would customise the HAF so that radiators would fit inside. Even a side panel from coolermaster here is 4 times that of in the states. I think what I might do is sell the GPU and RAM and upgrade. Is there any 8gb selections that are on offer/ really good value for performance at the moment? Thanks
I'd put a 240mm in the roof and another 240mm in the floor. That case is going to be a real squeeze, not good for a beginner, but it will make bleeding the loop easier. This pump/res combo will save you space and fittings. Apart from that it's all dependant on your choice of GPU really. with 2 dual double thick rads you should be able to cool any GPU, even with one slim and one thick rad a 580 and CPU are doable with good fans
Thanks for the help guys!! I understand what you mean about my budget not really being able to cover a new psu, gpu, ram and watercooling... I had no idea how expensive watercooling is! :O So I'm going to upgrade my GPU and RAM for sure! So thanks for the ideas on the GPU, I'm going to get a 580 or 570 but are there any particular RAM modules to look out for? I'm after 8gb. As for the cooling, I figure I'll need to upgrade the CPU cooler and overclock otherwise it'll be a bottleneck...so either I: 1) Get a decent air HSF for the CPU - Are there any you'd recommend that fit skt1156 that would rival water cooling? I had a look on CM's website when I was looking at my case and found this ridiculous design: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6074 (I'd never get that, but it made me chuckle) 2) Spend another £200 odd and get a watercooled system and learn about it. I really like the idea of having the combo like Bloody Pete recommended (Thanks!) but i have no knowledge of water cooling so is there a drawback to having a pump/res combo? Such as water flow? I was thinking of having 1 long (but slim) radiator at the top with two slim fans, and because that's not going to be great, another small one at the back and another small one at the front. Is that overkill? Will the pump be able to even handle that? :/ Heres how I can mount it at the front: Also, pete, I think I can only fit 200mm fans on the top and I'm not too keen on having fans at the bottom because it has to stay on my carpet (not enough room on my desk) so might be pointless. I've looked at your haf and I wish I got a bigger case now! Yours is epic! In the end, if I were to get watercooling, it'll look somehting like this...but I'd get the res/pump pete said and have that at the bottom:
Haha yeah! that's what I was thinking! I've not tried this, but can you install your only graphics card in the lower slots? :/ Would make my cooling right now a lot better I think...
Depends on the board of course, but generally the issue with mounting a card in the lower slots is that they're not always PCIe 16x (IF it even works at all... never tried, don't know if the board would complain about having the first slot empty). As far as air coolers go I honestly don't think anything can really "rival" watercooling unless you spend ALOT, and even then it's not going the be the same... and if you're going to spend that much on air you might as well save it for water. Again, my personal recommendation would be the upgrade the hardware to the tits first, get some decent affordable aftermarket cooler for now that will do just fine even for big OCs, and save a bit more for water so you can do it properly after everything's built up to par and actually working. That way you're not limited on the hardware AND the loop by trying to fit both in the same budget, and it'll give you more time to shop and research the parts for the best results. My 2 cents.
Hey thanks for all the feedback again. Was just wondering...if I'm running a resolution of 1680x1050 MAX. Then would getting another 4890 in crossfire give the same fps as a single 570? and the rest be "wasted"? I know the resolution is runs at makes a difference, but not sure how much...and I figure 1680x1050 isn't that high so would the older cards be better suited to that resolution? :/ I just wanted to ask before I blew £300 on a card when i could have got another 4890 on ebay for £70 and achieved enough performance. thanks again!
man, plenty of discussions about this subject, and i've had some "interesting" discussions about this particular card setup as well... other than bf3, do the games you play scale well with xfired 4890's? if so, hell yeah, spend the lesser cash on another 4890...and then, worst case scenario bf3 doesn't do well with xfired 4890's, sell them both on ebay and grab the bigger single gpu card...shouldn't be far off what you pay on ebay to sell it again, so no real risk. and yes, i would imagine 2x4890's will give similar performance to a gtx 570...
I think that's wise advice, spend less right now and see how it performs, you can always adjust later. No one can be sure yet how BF3 will perform anyway. If it scales well the CF 4890's should perform equivalently for less, especially at that res.
i guess you should understand the xfired 4890's will consume more powa!!...so make sure ur psu can handle it
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Exactly what im going to do. I've ordered another stick of that 2gb of RAM so it'll run in dual channel again and i dont have enough cash to get a decent gcard and watercooling so im going to get a coolermaster v6gt and o/c my i5 too. I'm looking to get a second hand 4890 and xfire them but the only thing im thinking is that it wont support dx11 and i don't know how much of a difference that makes. Have any of you played dx11 BC2?(i think that's available? :/) and I've heard great things about tesselation which I think is only supported in dx11. Thanks again!!!!
I wouldn't bother with xfire as BF2 (and probably BF3, though we can't be sure) suffer from micro-stutter with mukti-GPU set ups. Go for a GTX 570 or HD 6950 2GB and sell your current 4890. If your budget doesn't stretch that far then a 560 or 560Ti should be alright for your resolution. My 560 maxes out BF2 at 1080p so yours should be fine.
