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Motors US vs EU: Who's best (no flaming)

Discussion in 'General' started by losermeetsworld, 18 May 2006.

  1. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

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    A quick trip to chevrolet.com - the corvette has four wheel independant suspension with 'transverse composite springs'.
    ford.com - Yep, the Mustang has fancy coil springs and macpherson struts and shock absorbers and all that jazz.
     
  2. Piratetaco

    Piratetaco is always right

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    [​IMG]


    i'm no automotive engineer(yet) but those look like LEAFSPRINGS to me

    and the stang has a live rear axle
     
  3. warchild

    warchild What's a Dremel?

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    You don't have to prove nothing...in fact, you just said it all. :duh:
     
  4. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

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    Last time I saw transverse leafsprings not on a commercial vehicle was on a fiat 127 (1970's) and possibly a truimph GT6(1960's), not exactly modern suspension design and it definitely has no place on a so called sports car built in the 21st century, all they've done is replace the old tempered steel with a composite material which is probably glass fibre based

    And as for the argument that MAN trucks use leafsprings, they do but only on the front axle not the rear which is where they are usually employed
    [​IMG]
    taken straight from MAN trucks spec sheet
     
    Last edited: 28 May 2006
  5. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

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    I don't see any leaf springs, just macpherson struts with coil springs.

    [​IMG]
    Leaf Spring.

    [​IMG]
    Macpherson strut.

    I dunno, but your pic looks far more like a Macpherson strut.
     
  6. NiHiLiST

    NiHiLiST New-born car whore

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    Altron, the black strip that Piratetaco helpfully labelled is the leaf spring. It is just mounted transversally rather than longitudinally. That is the "transverse composite springs" that the website mentions.
     
  7. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

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    Umm thats actually a transverse leaf spring mounted upside down attached to the trailing arms, its definitley not a macpherson strut which is normally a coil spring over shock absorber arrangement, I see no coil springs on that rear suspension setup, I see shocks , trailing arms tie rod arms and an anti rollbar as well as the aforementioned transverse leaf spring, transverse meaning across the car rather than inline with the chassis.

    turn piratetaco's image upside down and the leaf spring becomes obvious ,leafsprings can be multiple or single leafs
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 28 May 2006
  8. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    What im saying is that they stoped using leaf springs for a long while now. And no the vette does not use leaf springs. It uses coil overs just like any other sports car cupled with independent rear and a transaxle. Meaning one weel is not connected directly to the other and suspension travel on one tire does not affect the other.

    The older c3's used live rears and that was eliminated with the c4 vette in 1983 witch still used leafs but indepent rear. Witch was then upgraded in 85 to spring rear end. The c5 vette used independed rear with coilovers and later in its life cycle it used a transaxle for 50/50 weight distribution. The newer vette uses that as well.

    The early fox mustang used leafs and solid rear till about 84 witch was then swaped out for independent rear again but still used leafs. This went on till about 91 when the car got some mutch needed spring suspension.

    The cars produced in the US from 1971 till about 1978 or 79 are complete crap. underpowered v8's and regulations that killed the muscle car. from about 1983 onward the cars have gotten sportier. The only real muscle car from the 1980's was the v6 350hp 3.8L turbocharged buick grand national. And even that had fully inmdependent rear and a modern coil overs. From the 1990's you have the chevy impala SS witch was a fire breathing 5.7L v8 pushing 350 and 350lb of tourque witch was factory detuned to those specs and even that had an independant rear, however it used leafs in the rear as it was a heavy vehicle.

    Everything in between from the mid 80's to now has been as modern as ever. in the 60's they used live rears and leafs simply because the roads were new and straight and the vehicles weight 5-6K pounds. That was the style then.

    However those vehicles back then retrofited with a fiew hundred bucks worth of modernised equipment live better than ever. They make retrofiting kits for just about any old 50's and 60's cars. Also one of the reasons they used live rears was the amount of tourque produced by these engines. An independant rear would be riped apart by a 440 on full throttle.
     
  9. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    Thats a roll bar on the vette. It prevents the tires from tucking under at high speed cornering. Some cars have them ontop others have them under.

    EDIT:

    1980's c4 suspension
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Thats a 1984 c4 corvette suspension setup bolted on a 1939 chevy frame. The frame is a modified frame but the suspension is completly stock.

    There you go guys.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2006
  10. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    There is an anti roll bar, but it's the black tubular bar, not the one that has been claimed to be the leaf spring.
     
  11. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    I never said 'stangs had leaf springs... but they DO have a live rear axle.

    [​IMG]


    If you want to read some FACTS about the mustang, click here
     
  12. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    Guess they went one step back. The old mustang had independent rear, in fact it shared its rear with the lincoln town car of the same year. Guess they wanted the muscle car feel back. The cobra has independent rear as well. As well as the upcoming shelby signature car.

    In any case the vette has not had a live rear since the c2. The c3 (upon consulting with my vette head buddy) did have an independent rear as well as disc breaks on all 4.

    Here is a bad pic. But its a cobra setup.
    [​IMG]


    EDIT: Before starts misunderstanding. In no way do I advocate a live rear axle. I drive a car with a live rear and it does what it needs to do. But its no sport vehicle as it gets rear happy around corners at over 50mph especialy if I lean off the acelerator.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2006
  13. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    from the same site I linked to above.....


    Mustang’s characteristic solid-rear axle has evolved continuously over the past 40 years, and the new model takes the car’s signature design into a new dimension.

    "We talked to a lot of Mustang owners as we were developing this program," said Hau Thai-Tang, chief engineer. "They are a very passionate group, and a lot of them told us – very strongly – that the all-new Mustang had to have a solid rear axle."
     
  14. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    SVT cobra has an independent rear.
     
  15. dave the nutter

    dave the nutter What's a Dremel?

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    look it is easy, yank cars in general are designed for low speed limits, low fuel prices and generally straight roads and for the home market. The rest of the world design for sensible speed limits, high fuel prices USA $2.88 per gallon,UK $7.92 per gallon,Germany $8.02, daft tax brackets uk road tax: Not over 1549cc: £110.00 per year, Over 1549cc: £175.00 per year.
    the factors above mean that an American car can have a large lazy engine whereas a european or far eastern car has to have a more efficient smaller engine. That and the fact that some of the legislation such as the fuel economy rules in the US left loopholes meaning certain vehicles where classed as comercial or left out of the stats.

    btw google says that the corvette used a transverse leaf spring till atleast '96 possibly '04 given a look through the parts catalogues
     
  16. Piratetaco

    Piratetaco is always right

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    dave see that picture up there that i posted,its a picture of a new corvette
     
  17. ultrastapler

    ultrastapler What's a Dremel?

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  18. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Minimodder

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    I really do fail to see a problem with the leaf springs on the 'vette. I don't see a problem for a couple reasons:

    1) It still has four wheel independent suspension. However, given the fact that to corner both wheels will have to move a little, the necessity of that is questionable. . .

    2) What exactly makes a coil spring better than a leaf spring? Really, they have a simple function- compress, and then return to their original shape.

    3) So, old leaf spring suspension setups suck (actually, thats kinda questionable, see #1). The main reason old leaf spring setups are not as good, is 'cause they are generally associated with solid axles. Also, leaf springs and solid axles have been going out of style lately. . . The last leaf spring on a sports car in Europe was apparently 30 years ago? Fast forward 30 years and I have a strange feeling the technology for leaf springs has advanced a little.

    4) The Corvette has seen a lot of coil springs under it's chassis. But in 2005 the 'vette switched to a leaf spring. Why would GM switch to an inferior suspension? The car is already very expensive- they deffinately didn't do it to save cost or money. The next question to ask is how does the new 'vette compare to cars with coil springs?

    It seems like someone is saying "OMG it's got a leaf-spring! That thing cant turn!" Thats a lot like saying "OMG it doesn't have a turbo, that car is slow!"

    L J
     
  19. Hopakee

    Hopakee What's a Dremel?

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    okey this forum went from US VS EU cars to Supercars to suspensions
    You got me confused.
    Supercars:
    Koenigsegg
    made in EU
    Mclaren F1
    made in EU
    Saleen
    made in US
    Lamborghini
    made in EU
    Pagani Zonda
    made in EU
    Spyker (Dutch!!!!)
    made in EU

    and the list goes on and on.
    As you can see that most "supercars" are made in EU.

    Indeed the leafspring system is outdated....
    I personaly think that US and EU can't be compared.
    US brand cars are all made with 2 goals: 1 it has to be big.
    2 is has to have lots and lots of HP.

    EU cars have a nice shape/design they are comfy and have to be fuell efficient.
    My vote still goes for the Dodge Viper GTS Concept but thats becouse the car just rocks.

    GreetZ
    Nick
     
  20. warchild

    warchild What's a Dremel?

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    Not only the leafspring system is outdated...The conventional Internal Combustion Engine, has been around since 1876 :rolleyes: when Nicolaus Otto invented the 4 stroke "Otto"-motor.
    Afterall the first hybrid was made by Ferdinand Porche in 1899... :rolleyes:
    In this digital age it's about time to move on in other directions...
     
    Last edited: 1 Jun 2006
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