1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Motors US vs EU: Who's best (no flaming)

Discussion in 'General' started by losermeetsworld, 18 May 2006.

  1. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Minimodder

    Joined:
    25 Jun 2002
    Posts:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    4
    Em, exactly what is outdated? The idea of leaf springs and solid axles, or the leaf-spring itself? 'Cause I imagine coil springs have been around a while. . . There is more to suspension than the type of spring. I don't care if the thing uses rubber bands, if it works, it works. Anyways. . .

    The problem with comparing US to EU cars is the fact that the Eurpoean will say "well, that car cant turn so mines better!" but any American drag raceing fan will quote the 1/4mile time and say "ha, mines better!"

    That said, I love living in the US where drag racing is popular. :)

    L J
     
  2. Hopakee

    Hopakee What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    21 Apr 2006
    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thats why we install NOS :naughty:
     
  3. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

    Joined:
    12 Dec 2002
    Posts:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    61
    The Corvette is a $50,000 car. The high-performance version with the LS7 is like $70,000. It has leaf springs.
    Now, you can find a '91 Volkswagen Jetta or something pretty old and cheap an made in Europe, and it will probably have coil springs. It will cost $500-$700.
    Now, do you really think they're putting leaf springs on the Corvette, the symbol of American muscle, because they're too stupid to engineer coils? When the car was using coils before?
    The leaf springs have to be better.
     
  4. Piratetaco

    Piratetaco is always right

    Joined:
    15 Apr 2004
    Posts:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    1
    as are pushrods , steel brakes and that wherethe****didyoufindsomanywheeliebinstomeltdown interior plastic?
     
  5. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

    Joined:
    3 Jan 2004
    Posts:
    760
    Likes Received:
    10
    and then get shat on from a great height by someone running a tuned skyline or similar, more power is not always good, I've had 1 litre cars that do the 0-60 dash in under 7 seconds with only mild tuning, never got to run them down the strip though, the nearest strip is at the other end of the country :(

    and before anyone says thats not possible both were Diahatsu Charade GTti's which have the reputation of being the worlds fastest 1 litre production car. 3 cylinders, twin cams, 12 valves and a turbo charger (100 bhp 7 second 0-60 in stock form) in a car that weighs as much as an empty crisp packet makes for interesting performance
     
  6. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Minimodder

    Joined:
    25 Jun 2002
    Posts:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    4
    fried kitten- I do hope you don't think 0-60 in 7 seconds is fast. It might be good for a 1 litre car, I don't know if it is or not, and there is a lack of 1 litre cars in the US.

    L J
     
  7. Piratetaco

    Piratetaco is always right

    Joined:
    15 Apr 2004
    Posts:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    1

    its good enough for most cars. the focus ASBO does it in 6.5 and thats the current best hot-hatch.
     
  8. ozstrike

    ozstrike yip yip yip yip

    Joined:
    19 Sep 2004
    Posts:
    2,946
    Likes Received:
    11
    ok, here is my opinion, based on what I've read in car reviews, heard in car reviews, and have been told by people who have driven cars from both areas, mainly my dad. Bearing in mind I can't drive, none of this is from personal experience.
    After talking to my dad, he told me that one of the best cars he can remember driving for the pure driving experience, was a Porsche 911; the current model. It is the car he drives the most at the minute, among all the ones he has. While not being as poweful as some of the cars he has, it is the most connected to the road, and the best handling. Second to this (these are all the recent cars; this is not counting cars greater than 5-10 years old) was the Aston DB7. These cars were so much more than the engine: they had an entire experience. The handling, the sound, everything.
    Both of these are European cars.

    Next, American cars. The main one my dad has tried was the previous generation Mustang V8. While the engine on this car was great, he said the handling was terrible, and so was the build quality. (Although so was the Aston's build quality). The sound was also great, but the handling and ride just couldn't redeem it.
    This is an American car. I know it is just one example, but it is one of the most popular American sports cars, and so was a good example.
    I could include some other cross examples to show that fast EU cars are not always better handling than US ones. My dads Bentley Arnage springs to mind: it is ridiculously fast, but really cannot corner well.
    This shows that the division is not clear-cut, but it is still there.

    Basically, both continents produce great cars, depending on what you want them to do. If you want to have a massive engine, and go fast in a straight line, get an American car.
    If you want to still go fast, and have fun driving corners too, get a Euro car.
    There are exceptions to the rule, but generally, this is true.
    I may sound like I do not like US cars; this is untrue. I love them, I love having a massive engine pulling me along. But I also like to go fast around corners.

    Just my 2C.
     
  9. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

    Joined:
    12 Dec 2002
    Posts:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    61
    OHV engines have better low-end torque than OHC, and since the engines aren't as tall, the front of the car is lower and more aerodynamic.
     
  10. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

    Joined:
    3 Jan 2004
    Posts:
    760
    Likes Received:
    10
    0-60 in under 7 seconds is actually very respectable for most cars without a v8 engine let alone a 1 litre (it is actually only a .5 seconds slower than a porsche 944 of the same era) I made the point to suggest that 5+ litres is not always beneficial I believe the 0-60 for a stock 2006 z06 'vette is somewhere in the region of 3.5-4 seconds with a quarter mile time of 11.5 which is admittedly bloody fast but on a par with a tuned Madza RX 7 running with less than half the engine capacity and a tuned charade will hurl itself down the same 1/4 mile strip only 3 seconds behind the corvette with only that piddly 1 litre engine and 183 bhp). In Europe and Japan 100bhp /litre is getting to be the norm, 30odd miles to the gallon is the norm, independent suspension all round is the norm, we don't use leafsprings on anything other than commercial vehicles or cars built before 1985, we have roundabouts so our cars have to be able to go round in a small circle without making their passengers seasick.

    edit
    care to quantify that? v8's are torquey anyway thats down to engine design not the push rods all "v" format engines have more torque than their inline counterparts be they v4,6,8,10,or 12 ,overhead valve, side valve or overhead cam and if i remember rightly the ohv/ohc format doesn't necessarily make a difference in height , you still have to hide all that valve gear.
     
    Last edited: 2 Jun 2006
  11. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Minimodder

    Joined:
    25 Jun 2002
    Posts:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    4
    The RX-7 was a nice car, with one flaw- emissions. That charade is indeed 3 seconds slower, but 3 seconds on a 1/4 mile is quite a bit of difference. Browsing through the times for the CK1500- you get about ~14 seconds, about hte same as the charade. I know plenty of people who will admit that a corvette is a lot faster than a pickup.

    L J
     
  12. Piratetaco

    Piratetaco is always right

    Joined:
    15 Apr 2004
    Posts:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    1

    have you compared to exactly the same(bar valve arrangement) engines to see whether ohv has more torques low down or do you have some test data you could show us to back up that fact?
     
  13. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    41
    I agree with the general idea in here that American cars may go fast in a straight line, but Euro cars have handling nailed.
    I've never seen any American car beat any brit car at the handling stakes.
     
  14. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2004
    Posts:
    10,937
    Likes Received:
    536

    Not necessarily true, plus... most modern engines have VVT, or split systems anyway. My Duratec is only 12v below 3500rpm, cos 2 valves per cylinder gives better low end torque, yet is 24v after that for hgh end power. As it's optimised for both ends of the rev range it will **** all over any same sized OHV engine.
     
  15. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

    Joined:
    12 Dec 2002
    Posts:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    61
    I could spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours re-doing my 307 to OHC then comparing it to the old one, but since you obviously don't need statistical evidence to claim that all American cars turn like ****, I guess statistical evidence saying that OHV engines produce more torque is unnecessary. Why bother with facts when you can make blanket generalizations discrediting millions of vehicles as crap?
     
  16. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

    Joined:
    3 Jan 2004
    Posts:
    760
    Likes Received:
    10
    Altron, come to europe and drive an american car on european roads (excluding auto bahns/routes/stradas) and you'll see why europeans think american cars are crap, its not a sweeping generalisation its an opinion shared by the majority of the car owning population outside the US, in the US you obviously love your home market cars just as in europe we love eurobox's and japanese cars, its horses for courses dont take it personally, you can't prove that a car handles well with statistics because people have individual preferences, engine power however is a different kettle of fish, torque and bhp are exact measures and can be proven with figures as can power to weight ratios so please fess up with some figures to prove that OHV is more torquey than OHC
     
  17. AJB2K3

    AJB2K3 What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    12 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,605
    Likes Received:
    4
    No contest realy.
    USA builds BIG gas guzzlers,
    EU builds little econimic cars.
     
  18. Lovah

    Lovah Apple and Canon fanboy

    Joined:
    10 Jul 2002
    Posts:
    3,846
    Likes Received:
    25
    Didn't read every letter that has been sed here. But here is my opinion:

    American cars are designed for the american market. So it is designed for:
    - Long distance driving
    - Driving on wide/straight roads

    And that is why they are
    - Automatics
    - Comfortable
    - Big in size, Big in Engine
    - Heavily equipped (Cruise control, ..)


    European cars are designed for the european market. So it is designed for:
    - Shorter drives
    - Tiny/Curvy roads
    - Taxes on engine size & Expensive fuel

    Thats why they are:
    - Light and small
    - Small in enginesize
    - Designed for alot of tight corners


    To take an example of an american car, I choose the Mustang, simple because it is one of the best known american cars. It has alot of power and performs very well. It has a large turning circle and doesn't handle that well around corners, simple because you have wider roads and less curvy roads, so sharp turns it not necessary. It has a big engine and uses a good amount of fuel...

    To take an example of a European car, I'm gonna choose the Porsche 911 Carrera. Simple because it has been around a long time, like the Mustang and it is probably one of the best known European Sports Cars. It has a reasonable size engine and offers a great deal of power and performance for that engine. It handle's extremely well and goes well around corners. (it does cost alot more then a mustang0

    I'm not going into the torque/bhp per litre discussion, simple because it is a different country with different regulations and taxes.

    Oh, and the roads are different, but the tracks are too. Our tracks are alot more curvy, just like our roads. Not only are the tracks different but the races are different aswell. Europeans don't have drag races for instance, we care more about high speed cornering then top speeds on straight lines.

    This is why there is no comparing the european sports cars with the americans. It's like comparing offroad vehicle's with road vehicle's. They are designed for a different kind of track/road.

    Having sed all that, I still believe we make 'better' supercars/sportcars then the americans. I mean we have: Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Lotus, Bugatti, Koeningsegg, Mercedes, Maserati, ..

    But, even when we have all these great cars... we aswell have the Ariel Atom, that will kick most (if not all) these incredible expensive supercars in there balls.

    L
     
  19. simon_C

    simon_C Minimodder

    Joined:
    13 Nov 2005
    Posts:
    271
    Likes Received:
    0
    couldnt have sais it better myself!

    and the ariel atom is one of the best cars ever. then again theres the new Lotus elise (which someone right around here has, its really odd to see nice cars around here)......

    i see it this way: i like american muscle because its easy to tune, easy to find parts for, and really freaking balls-to-the-wall primal rage power.

    i like euro cars because they stick to the road harder than week old chewing gum, are nice and small, more exotic looking, and feel more like a fun toy.

    my REALISTIC dream cars are: an audi TT coupe, 1970s chevelle SS, 1970s 'vette stingray, VW corrado, and VW caddy pickup truck.
     
  20. NiHiLiST

    NiHiLiST New-born car whore

    Joined:
    18 Aug 2001
    Posts:
    3,987
    Likes Received:
    6
    :jawdrop: You didn't mention Zonda, Noble or TVR! (Or lots of others but those are relatively well known.)
     
Tags:

Share This Page