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Motors US vs EU: Who's best (no flaming)

Discussion in 'General' started by losermeetsworld, 18 May 2006.

  1. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Why dont you guys stop comparing super cars and non stock muscle cars? No one here drives those as a daily drive. Why don't you compare real cars that 90% of both US and EU citizens drive? Better yet, why don't you compare cars that compete in both markets, yet have differing places of maunfacture and specs? Like the Ford Focus or the Saab 9-3? Then you have valid arguements. Saying a Ferrari is better then some obscure mid-80's Vette is riduclous. I have owned both a Ford Focus in the US and in Germany and the differnce in interior build quality was astonishing. With identical specs and performance, the interior is where you spend your time driving. And where the US market lags behind. Take the new Dodge Charger, great car, good engine, drive ok-ish ( it is a charger after all ) but what blind monkey desgined the inside? It's all plastic and angles. Any performance the engine gives is instantly leaves your mind when you sit in traffic. All you have then is interior design and comfort. And that is why even mid-market BMW's and Audi's are a delight. They "feel" nice and sexy even standing still. And between the US and the EU, there really isn't anywhere where you can use 300+ bhp except for a track. Which is why handeling is so important, even in Civic.

    I think this thread needs to get real and remember how we all really use our cars. To work and back, shopping and kids and screwing around. No one here goes to Stop and shop or Tescos in a Diablo.
     
  2. Lovah

    Lovah Apple and Canon fanboy

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    I had been up all night working (graveyard 10pm-6am) so forgive me if I forgot a few :p thats what the , ... was for.

    Oh and Zonda is not a brand of cars, it's Pagani.

    And and Jumeira_Johnny,
    My general description about american/european cars works for supercars, sportscars and every day cars. European cars handle alot better because we have more curvy roads and so it needs to handle better.

    Oh and you could compare the turning circle's from american and european cars, I'm sure most european cars turn alot shorter then americans. Again, for the same reason's I already stated.

    I don't know the interiors of any american cars. But you should also consider that european cars are generally more expensive then american cars. A BMW has a nicer interior then a VW Golf.. but they have different price tags aswell. That's why it's so hard to compare the markets.

    Oh well... Most likely I will never drive an American car anyway :p

    L


    PS: May I point out that Lexus is an american brand (it is, isn't it?) and they produce very european cars. In design, engine's, handeling and interior. They still have room for improvement, but it is very european.
     
  3. NiHiLiST

    NiHiLiST New-born car whore

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    That's true, I was just testing you :worried:

    I'm not sure if Lexus is American, European or otherwise. However, the cars they sell are sold as Toyotas in Japan. As far as I know they are Japanese cars.
     
  4. Lovah

    Lovah Apple and Canon fanboy

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    Just looked it up, indeed, its owned by the Toyota Group. Don't know why I thought it was American.. weird. Well.. this just proves my point again. :D Hooray.
     
  5. Bboy_Jon

    Bboy_Jon What's a Dremel?

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    ya lexus is a toyota group, as is scion
     
  6. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    In all fairness, I do agree with you on the handeling side, but I differ with you as to why. European cars small cars are designed for European cities, hence the smaller turning radius and such. But you missed the main point of my post, which was in terms of new sales, those big American cars aren't the leaders. Most Americans are buying the same cars as Europeans. You can't tell me a MY06 Honda Civic in the US has a different turn radius then the EU one. They have the same underpinnings. I think if you do the research, in most classes of cars, except the micro (fiat uno, renault 206) the leaders in the US and the EU are the same. Hence my comment on the interior being a major point of difference.

    The point of my post was that, looking at actual sales, the diffenences in the US market and the EU market, excluding the SUV and micro classes, are smaller then you think. The luxury classes are almost identical. I was hoping to bring this thread more down to earth and look at apple vs apples instead of super cars vs muscle cars. I think then that you'll see the real differences in the styling, handeling and marketing. Not in the stereotypical Big Boat Car vs Small Sporty Car.

    Oh and as for never driving an American car, you'd be suprised at what all lies under the body panels. If you buy a new mid-sized car in the EU, the chances are pretty good that you are riding on either a Japanese or US chassis. Opel, Renault, Saab, Jaguar.... the list is quite long.

    P.S. I should mention that my wife is the buisness manger for Middle East and North Africa, working for a major car manufacturer. I get to see the sales numbers in both the US and Europe for their models and the competion. On top of being a car nut.
     
  7. Reins

    Reins What's a Dremel?

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    Personally I don't care where cars come from. Just because a car comes from a certain country isn't going to steer me away from it. I know quality when I see it and all countries have great examples of performance cars.

    BTW stop the flaming it is really annoying to be on the receiving thread. Some of the comments about Americans in this thread are more close minded then the people you make us out to be.
     
  8. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Dude-relax, this isn't flaming, this is good natured badgering about cars. Cars. But there are a few good points here. Drive from Boston to Minneapolis in a Mini Cooper and you'll see that not all the comments here are made up drivel.
     
  9. Reins

    Reins What's a Dremel?

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    I agree that our roads are straight; the U.S. isn't as hilly as the U.K. in general. It's a fact, our roads were built like that to be efficient and get people to their destinations as quickly as possible. We have our far share of mountains just not as many. What were bothering me were the comments on the first couple pages that really had nothing to do with cars and were flat out bashing. I also don't really think this is a fair comparison either seeing as how the U.S. is a country and the E.U. is a continent. In general I like the cars from Germany but I can’t really say much for the rest of Europe.
     
  10. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

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    America also has a huge amount of variance in the types of roads.

    Think about it. The Eastern Seaboard was colonized in the early 1600s with Jamestown and Roanoke

    By the mid 1700s, we had major cities.

    However, it wasn't until the late 1700s/early 1800s that we started to move off the eastern seaboard, and even then, it was just the midwest.

    It wasn't until the early 1900s that California and the Western Seaboard had sizable populations.

    And it's VERY easy to see how roads have evolved from 1700s-1930s.

    You go in New York City, and the area around it, and there are VERY windy VERY small roads. Really steep hills, hairpin turns, most roads are two lanes. That stuff was originally built in the 1700s.

    Head down to South Jersey where I live, and it's different. The roads are still relatively small and windy, and half of them are still two lanes, but there's a decent amount of four lane roads and long straight roads, because we were very rural for a decent amount of time. There are still windy hilly 1-lane roads, but not nearly as many as NYC and the area around it.

    As you head farther west, the roads get bigger, straighter, and flatter.

    Downtown Phoenix, Arizona is completely different from NYC. The roads are much newer. City roads are like 4-6 lanes, instead of the 2-4 in NYC. The roads are relatively straight (however, they are still hilly, simply because Phoenix is near the Rocky Mountains, but the inclines are a lot more gradual and infrequent compared to NY. You might drive uphill for 10 miles and downhill for 10, around a mountain. In NY, you can drive uphill for a quarter mile then downhill for a quarter mile.)

    There are still plenty of very hilly roads in the US. Near my aunt's house, there's a road that is one lane wide and is almost like switchbacks, down a hill, with like a 20% incline. You go down that and look in the mirror, you see nothing but the trees above.

    I'm firmly in the camp that says the differences between roads, cars, and driving styles is due more to historical events than to "lazy americans".
     
  11. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    You also have to consider that the interstate highway system was designed in the 50's, not so much to move people but to move missiles. The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways was built primarily with truck launched ICBMs and military convoys in mind hence the insane width of the roads and lack of bends.
    I think it is quite fair, considering that North America IS a continent; Canada enjoys the same sale mix as the US and Mexico likes big cars too. Out of the 3 countries that make up the continent, none list the Fiat Uno as a market leader. In terms of new cars sales and trends, North America is considered as a whole.
     
    Last edited: 26 Jul 2006
  12. Reins

    Reins What's a Dremel?

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    Alright I can live with that.
     
  13. Altron

    Altron Minimodder

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    But the existing infrastructure in the Northeast, especially small roads, wasn't changed very much. Sure, we've got good ol' 95 runnin' across the state with six lanes of lovin', but the small county roads are only one or two lanes in most places.
     
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