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Education Using bicycle helmet cameras?

Discussion in 'General' started by bigsharn, 29 Oct 2011.

  1. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    I'm sure there are also plenty of points that don't agree with everything said in this thread, but if you aren't going to copypasta the specifc points you're refering to, don't expect anyone to analyze that whole wall of text for you.
     
  2. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    I asked a question first :)
     
  3. format

    format What's a Dremel?

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    It's 10 minutes (max) worth of reading which is well formatted and broken up into 5 individual points, which are clearly outlined.


    I'll refer you to the very first thing he says about tests and such -



    Which is a fairly strong argument for the use of helmet cams by cyclists, IMO.

    It's still a valid point. The ignorance of the Highway Code that I've encountered both IRL and through the multitude of helmetcam vids on YouTube is pretty staggering, both from cyclists and motorists.

    The difference though, as you point out, is that motorists are required to know all about it, and cyclists are not. I've chosen, as a cyclist, to acquaint myself with the relevant parts because that way I know my rights (and responsibilities) regarding what I can and cannot do on a bicycle.
    The outcome of me not knowing the Highway Code could be my death, so I take responsibility for that.
     
  4. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    And I think everyone would agree with that as well.
    There is a difference between riding or driving within some of your rights, and/or even just being respectful/courteous on the roads.

    For example, yesterday I was crossing a single lane one way street along with many other pedestrians, and as the time was running out, a young lady had just begun to cross.
    She was halfway through to the other side when the lights changed, and would have easily made it to the footpath way before the first car reached the pedestrian crossing...

    ...except that gathering speed down the hill was a bicyclist, and when the lights turned green, he pedaled hard and very narrowly missed her. She was now within 1 meter of the footpath, but the bicyclist literally screamed at her as he passed within a few inches of her.
    At least a dozen pedestrians witnessed this, some people shook their heads, others seemed to ignore it, I assume this isn't the first time they've seen this sort of thing.

    He was riding within some of his rights, but ignoring others, such as the right to behave respectfully towards others, and ignoring the legal requirement to ensure an intersection is clear before entering.
    Just because a light turns green, it does not give anyone the right to barge through.
    If any motorcycle rider tried this on their riding assessment, it would be an instant fail.
     
  5. Matticus

    Matticus ...

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    Well, I am glad I commented on that video... :p
     
  6. tipz69

    tipz69 What's a Dremel?

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    I cycle 15 miles to and from work everyday. Until three weeks ago I've never had a driving licence (I'm 29).

    I ride to the left.
    I ride over drains if I have to.
    I don't filter. If I am in a queue of traffic I'll wait in line just like everyone else.
    I never undertake.
    I assume every driver will pull out on me or hook me.
    If am approaching a right turn I need to take, I stay to the left until its safe to come out to the middle of the road. If its a busy road I pull over and wait until its clear for me to get across.
    If a junction I'm turning in to has a car waiting, I'll signal for them to go.
    I wait at red lights.
    If I'm climbing a hill I'll tuck in to the left as far as I can (1ft or less), if there is still not enough space I'll go on the pavement and reduce my speed.
    If I have enough juice at the time I'll match road speed and take a primary position only then.

    There are idiots who drive and idiots who ride. If anyone comes too close, its just part of life. I don't throw a paddy about it. Its quiet possible it was a one time misjudgement. No-one is perfect and I certainly don't agree with posting registrations and videos on the web. How is that going to win support for cyclists exactly?

    The closest calls I've had has been caused by other cyclists, pedestrians or my own mistakes.

    I am also insured third-party.

    The road is for cars, I am just a guest and ride to reflect that status. I do all this and still ride fast and hard.
     
  7. Bungletron

    Bungletron Minimodder

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    I saw an incident the other day that reinforced very clearly that any road user must cycle/drive defensively as you cannot account for the behaviour or reactions of other road users you may interact with.

    On a narrowish 2 lane t junction at the lights the left lane is for traffic turning left. This space was occupied by double decker bus that was waiting to turn left with practically no space between it and the curb. A cyclist with no helmet cycles to the back of the bus and proceeds step the bike down this tiny gap and sit in the buses blind spot, I could see this was going to end up in disaster. The only chance the cyclist would have is to beat the bus at the lights and get ahead of it.

    Sure enough, the lights change but the cyclist pulls away slowly, clearly intending to go straight ahead, the bus swerves left, clatters and catches the front tyre and the cyclist gets catapulted spectacularly forward into a huge faceplant. The driver avoids mowing her down completely due to the intervention of passengers on the bus that see everything.

    I was dumbstruck at the pointless way this cyclist was willing to waste her life, no helmet, or even very simply: if you do not want to mess with a bus avoid it completely rather than deal with it in such a perilous manner. Obviously some education may have been lacking. If it had been me on the bike, I too might not want to wait behind the bus but I would have always cycled down the other side of it and regardless of how I got to the front of the lights always sit right in front of the line so I can be seen (although now a car driver I am perfectly happy for cyclists at lights to go in front of the line, pretty much standard procedure in London and I would rather see them line up ahead of me annoying me than end up squishing one in my blindspot). These points may or not be obvious, a lot of drivers are equally oblivious to simple precautions to take to avoid trouble so all road users must be diligently aware of the potential shortcomings of others.
     
  8. Atomic

    Atomic Gerwaff

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    Interesting you say that as bikes have been on the roads longer than cars.

    Motorways are built for cars, everything else is fair game.
     
  9. format

    format What's a Dremel?

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    I don't understand this type of cyclist at all. I've never even had a single driving lesson but the first thing I did before starting to cycle in the city was to read this.
     
  10. format

    format What's a Dremel?

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  11. dancingbear84

    dancingbear84 error 404

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    And you are exactly the type of cyclist that should be on the road. Sensible and cautious of everything, it is how I drive too and how I have stopped having head on collisions with other idiot road users, cars in the two most recent cases.

    public highways are scary unpredictable places that drivers/riders become complacent with.
    Simple way to drive/ride that my dad taught me:
    1. Assume everyone else on the road is an idiot
    2. Make sure you can stop in half the available distance in front of you.
     
  12. bigsharn

    bigsharn Officially demotivated

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    I have to disagree with the majority of the above:
    • By ride over to the left I assume you mean taking a secondary position, this isn't always the best course of action.
    • Riding over drains is probably the best way to guarantee getting a puncture, or go down on the slippery surface, or worse to damage your wheel rim.
    • Filtering is perfectly safe and legal the majority of the time, If you choose not to filter the that's up to you, but you mentioned before about riding to the left, meaning you're likely to be in someone's blind spot if you just wait there.
    • If you are approaching a right turn it makes more sense to
      • I never undertake.
      • I wait at red lights.
      • I assume every driver will pull out on me or hook me.
      [/QUOTE]

      You would be a fool to undertake or not to wait at a red light under most circumstances (deserted pedestrian crossings aren't dangerous to jump, just incredibly inconsiderate).
      Assuming everyone's an idiot is the safest way to ride.

      This is a bit of a grey area in cycling. I'm happy with slower cyclists being on the pavement (<8mph the law says) to get up a hill etc, but some would disagree. I'd certainly say being on the pavement is a safer bet than being in the gutter at that speed.

      It's not to win support, it's to educate drivers how to behave properly around cyclists. As I mentioned earlier, posting a registration is the easiest way of a driver identifying themself. I regularly catch up with drivers and tell them to search their reg plate on youtube, and have had some thank me for it.

      That's fair enough, but being further into the lane would prevent pedestrians being so close should they choose to step out in front of you.


      Admittedly I see these a hell of a lot, as a pedestrian or on my bike. Before now I've been prepared to grab someone to stop them going under a truck. Having seen someone go under a cement truck on a moped I know how messy the result can be.

      There are a couple of videos online with people going up the inside of large vehicles and it's amazing how uneducated they are about the dangers involved.
     
  13. bigsharn

    bigsharn Officially demotivated

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    *Double post, please delete*
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2011
  14. bigsharn

    bigsharn Officially demotivated

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    TRIPLE post? How does that work?
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2011
  15. M7ck

    M7ck Ⓜod Ⓜaster

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    Do you need to disagree with it three times?
     
  16. sp4nky

    sp4nky BF3: Aardfrith WoT: McGubbins

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    protip: don't use quote marks in URLs.
     
  17. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    So bigsharn do you have a full UK drivers licence?
     
  18. FIBRE+

    FIBRE+ Minimodder

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    Is this debate still going...

    Heres my road experience\views\etc...

    I'm 29 and have been riding bikes more seriously since I was about 15 (learned when I was about 4), I've had one non serious accident on the road (when I was about 16) which was an impatient taxi that cut into the cycle lane to undercut another car waiting to make a right turn into a side road. There have been "moments"(not accidents) some my fault some other peoples but I generaly don't get into situations.

    I passed my driving test last friday so until this year I have learned the ways of the road just by riding and some common sense. I would say common sense and a bit of forward thinking are two key things to not getting into situations (and a lot of looking and indicating) , lets face it there are dicks on or in any vehicle motorised or not and you have to prejudge what anyone around you is going to do. Even if someone is doing something wrong you need to already leave enough room to allow for mistakes or general poor riding\driving of people around you.


    I've read some of this thread and looked at some of the videos. I can see why the thread is getting a bit excitable as I would say in a few i've watched you have put yourself into pontetial situations by not allowing for possible situations. Like hanging near the back of vehicles instead of moving further back or overtaking, filtering when the trafic is moving at the same speed as you, etc. I am in no way a conservative rider I try and hover around 18-25mph on the flat but providing I have room and time to react to things around me, I'm not overly conservative but I don't take risks. I used to ride a bit too exgressively when I was younger but I've grown out of that after a couple of close calls.

    I'm not having a moan but just thought I make input from a long term cyclist (and now car drivers) point of view.
     
  19. MarkW7

    MarkW7 Total Noob

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    Sums up the thread really.
     
  20. FIBRE+

    FIBRE+ Minimodder

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    Just out of curiosity what was this issue with needing a custom helmet? (if you did get one).

    Edit: found it. Have you tried a larger helmet like a Giro Venti (up to 65cm with some extra pads) or a skate\pisspot helmet doesn't fit?.

    It's down to the individual but I never ride without one, I don't care about the research against them but if I going to hit my head on something i'd rather have something softer in between it and the object. Studies like this \/ really annoy me, an accident will happen regardless of drivers subconciously driving closer or not, that's why it's an accident. Theres a good chance they haven't even seen you, that's how a lot of scenarios happen.

     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2011

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