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Motors Want to put a V8/10/12 in your car? lol

Discussion in 'General' started by Puk, 10 May 2011.

  1. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    im going to have to disagree with this. with the v8 in longitudinal configuration, more of the weight is placed aft of the front axle than with a FWD engine and transaxle. the v8 is heavier, no doubt, but the part of it thats in front of the axle is probably not much (if any) heavier. combined with the fact that im sure some components have to be relocated (ie. battery) to make room for the v8...plus a heavy live axle being placed in the rear....im willing to bet the weight balance on a RWD conversion is considerably better than a stock focus.

    the focus also has a slightly longer wheelbase than a mustang :thumb:

    a RWD focus would be no track star...but im willing to bet it would handle pretty decently if you spent a little time tweaking the suspension after the swap.
     
  2. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    I've done some racing and drifting in a V8 torana = fairly short wheelbase rwd V8 car, and I can remember how much fun it was to drive... it definitely wasn't a balanced or steady car!
    Think mustang or camaro, then shorten the wheelbase so it's less stable, and then chop off the boot so there's less weight at the rear = V8 in a focus. Sure it would be fun to drive... burnouts, drifting and fishies are fun, and V8's sound cool... so if these are the goal, which you want in a compact car, and you like the look of a focus, then go for it I guess... but I wouldn't if you want to do some track days... as it wouldn't be hard for every mx5 or integra to overtake :worried:

    Some of the motor and all of the gearbox is behind the front wheels in the V8 focus, but they are still sitting on the front half of the car + all the reinforcements and brackets needed at the front end... there aren't that many bits to go down the rear, since the diff weighs very little compared to a 5.0 V8... notice how they suggest some coil overs for the rear, but leave the soft suspension up front :hehe: That's how desperate the cause is to get some weight on the rear in the turns.

    If the conversion was done with a modern high tech ~4L all alloy V8 instead, then things would be bettter... but again, if performance is the goal, use a 4wd driveline, and a turbo 4 cylinder can mean the same or better power to weight ratio, with a very nice weight distribution, and less weight overall to boot.
     
  3. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    again, the focus has a longer wheelbase than a mustang, so given you would essentially be swapping the mustangs drivetrane into a longer car, using the same layout, it will handle similar (probably better) than a mustang.

    of coarse, thats not saying a whole lot because american muscle cars are utterly defeated by bends in the road, but my point is the focus could have potential to handle decently.
     
  4. jhanlon303

    jhanlon303 The Keeper of History

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    that's mostly true but if you do the whole swap - engine, trans, rear end, front suspension and exhaust from Mustang GT or better, what you really end up with is a Mustang GT modular in a Focus body. A sleeper. The exhaust is the key. Mustang GTs and Shelbys have an exhaust note that is totally recognizable. The Focus conversion is significantly lighter than the new fat Mustangs. Been done in the US before. V8 Vega, 302 Pinto, Hemi Duster. My 69 Hemi Roadrunner had rubber taxi floor and no carpets. Bench seat. Cheapest body with proper big engine. Americans value noise and massive straight line performance a lot. 2 schools. those who turn and those who don't. Please check out the newest hemi challenger factory race cars. In some states of the US these CAN be licensed for the street. I got no warranty on my 69 Roadrunner and these newest factory builds have none either.

    /end old motorhead ramble.
     
  5. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    im an american that turns. TBH ive not much interest in challengers, chargers (particularly the new ones. it took dodge 1.1 extra liters of displacement to gain 13HP on the new 5.0 mustang...WTF is that?), vettes, mustangs, etc. but i guess i come from a different generation. i grew up knowing that you can have it all: luxury, power, handling, and ride. you dont need to sacrifice comfortable seats and carpeting to go fast.

    a RWD v8 focus would be great for destroying ricer boys between stoplights, but it would snowplow all over the place on windy country roads. i wasnt trying to say it would handle great, i was just trying to say it wouldnt handle any worse than its donor car which most people would probably describe as...acceptable.
     
  6. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    Oh yeah, I meant to say whatchutalkinboutwillis?!?!???, but maybe you're talking about one of the longer 4 door versions? Cos the two door thing on the previous page is tiny!

    Well then yeah, if you do the conversion to a long focus, then you can have the straight line performance of a mustang in a focus body... getting it to corner as well would take a bit of work... because don't forget that a mustang body was designed to handle the weight and torque of a V8, so to get a focus body to handle as well, there'd be at least a few more body reinforcements required, not just the bare minimum given in the conversion kit... also the mustang is a little more sleek/has a slightly lower center of gravity.. I haven't checked the track but I wouldn't be surprised if the mustang has a bit more... which would account for any weight differences between a focus V8 conversion that can actually handle, and a mustang - assuming we aren't comparing a bare bones converted focus, to a fully optioned mustang!

    TL;DR: yeah, you could get one of the long wheelbase focuses to handle very similarly to a mustang, which isn't super but decent enough.... but the long wheelbase focuses are kinda fugly! The little two door things are kinda cute, not as nice as a golf or peugeot, alfa, etc, but why would anyone want to spend money on a 4 door focus :confused: :lol: :hehe:
     
  7. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    2000 ford focus ZX3 (2-door hatch) wheelbase: 103.0"

    2000 ford mustang GT coupe wheelbase: 101.3"

    the focus is longer, you must believe me. ive measure myself :thumb:

    however, you have a valid point about track width. the mustang has a considerably wider track.

    the mustang is shorter (height), but the focus is over 500lbs lighter...which i think would make up for its CG being higher. a v8 engine/trans and rear axle would probably close that gap, but the focus would still be an easy 200lbs lighter.
     
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  8. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    Damn, those 2000 mustangs have a ridiculously short wheelbase!?!?! Sure it would help steering response, but those mustangs would be damn twitchy, especially in the wet :worried:
    The rest of them aren't as bad, closer to 110"

    Yeah, after conversion, the focus might have ~200lbs advantage, but the extra track of the mustang would make up for that in handling, especially at higher speeds... so I guess yeah, you are correct! One could make a cute little focus go and handle about as well as a mustang :hehe: :lol:
     
  9. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    the mustangs steering is really too dull to make it very twitchy. it will come around on you if it starts sliding, but its more likely to understeer into a ditch than spin :D
     
  10. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    lmao
    I haven't driven a mustang, but I'm not surprised they handle like other american V8's :sigh:
     
  11. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    each generation is getting progressively better. ive only driven the 2011 a short distance, but the handling was so much more sensitive than previous years. the nose also feels much shorter which helps prevent the feeling of the nose swinging around like its not part of the same car.

    american manufacturers are slowly learning :)
     
  12. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    Let me set you staright on a few things, a v8 does not necesarily need to weigh more than a 4 cylinder, 4g63 out of a mitsubishi is within a few punds in weight to a 6.2L v8 chevy ls motor. Same can be said for allot of engines. the bmw 4L engine weighs 15lb more than a 5L mustang engine, im willing to bet that the iron block 5.0L engine is close to the weight of the eriginal 2.0L engine in the focus. Its also a far simpler engine.

    As for the conversion, I have not driven one but I have seen them upclose and the engine is definitly shoved pretty far back into the firewall, these conversions require firewall modifications.

    Also on the solid axle, belive it or not its actualy lighter than a fully independed rear, however it has more unsprung weight. Not to mention its built to take abuse.

    To be honest I see no reason to do this conversion. Id rather just buy a fox body mustang and swap a modern 6 speed in it and a set of ported heads and headers. Hell even a set of 11:1 pistons and cam would be nice for about 450hp. ALthough I personaly would brace the hell out the chasis and put in coilovers all around.
     
  13. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    would you care to try to keep up with my american v8 mustang down a road course? How about on twisty roads? Many a bmw driver has tried and failed. I dont claim my mustang is the best handling car out there. But its no slouch. Very little needs to be done for it to handle well. Hell the new boss302 is 1-2 seconds per lap faster around laguna seca than a current m3 and also beat the time of the audi r8 thats out the box brand new, and the 1-2 seconds depend on the options package. Strange things come out of the ford factory these days. Car that have engines that rev to the moon and back, deliver hp and a mountain of torque then they go ahead and do silly things like make the damn thing handle like its on rails. Its also lighter than a m3 and it comes with standard recaro race seats......:hehe:
     
  14. bagman

    bagman Well-Known Member

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    I should damn well hope the Boss 302 is faster than a M3 the, the M3 is getting on to 5 years old now
     
  15. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    I don't see how the weight of a 4gr63 or the 4L are at all relevant :confused:
    Bets aside, I'd be pleasantly surprised if I actually saw some facts, proving that an iron block 5L was anywhere near the weight of an iron 2L engine.
    I never weighed them, put I've used engine jacks to lift iron 4cyl, 6cyl, and V8's, and I kid you not, the bigger engines sure seemed to weigh more.

    That's nice, but it's a shame the weight of the big engine and the big gearbox, are both sitting at the front half of the car.

    Yeah, the solid diff won't do much to balance the weight of the car, but including the suspension for the solid diff, the weight will be very similar, if not greater using the solid diff.
    Another weight disadvantage, is the addition of a propeller shaft.

    Big ford solid diffs can take abuse sure, and they can be lots of fun, sure, I've had a ball drifting using them, but they are definitely not the best thing to go racing with.

    Same here. If I wanted a compact family car with power, there are some great factory turbo 4cyl options, both in fwd and 4wd, with heaps of upgrade potential to boot.

    Take your pick, two wheels or four? Racetrack or mountain hills? :D

    Wow, a flagship 5L in practically race spec, beat an M3? I assume this is a fair comparison, and you are referring to the M3 GT4? Or was it the M3 GT2?
    No? Maybe you meant the M3 GTS???
    Surely you aren't comparing the brand new boss302, to a base performance spec luxury M3 :worried:

    Bottom line is, that a V8 in a focus, with adequate reinforcements and suspension tuning, could perform similar to a 2000 model mustang, and no amount of suspension tuning would let either car perform like a new boss302, or even out perform many modern standard 4cyl turbo performance cars.
     
  16. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    You don't get it do you? The mustang is punching well above its weight here. They are not in the same class therefore its coming from a lower segment. The mustang is in the 350z/370z segment. It demolishes those cars and kicks some serious ass well above it.

    its like saying a middle weight prize fighter just beat and embarrassed the heavyweight champion of the world.
     
  17. jaguarking11

    jaguarking11 Peterbilt-strong

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    Lets see here, which engine is more race spec? 4L dohc 8000rpm redline with less than 300lb of torque or a 5L with 7500rpm redline close to 400lb of torque. I have seen both engines on the stand, ive seen both engine internals. The boss 302 is not even close to race spec. Actually you cant spot much of the differences from the 5.0L to boss302 through the naked eye. Remember its only a 30hp bump from a standard one. My 3v 4.6L picked that up from a proper tune. Lets not kid ourselves as well. M3 is not luxury in the full sense of the word. As much as any 3 series can be considered luxury. Its a cock mobile for guys who cant afford to get a proper porsche but need an excuse to brag.

    As for the track? How about watkins glen? They renovated a while back too. its only a 6hour drive from my house. :D
     
  18. profqwerty

    profqwerty New Member

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    My dream is a rolled nice fat V8 diesel 4x4, with the engine and drivetrain modded into an old long wheel base Defender. This way I can run it on vege oil for free and decimate people around the track. QED.
     

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