War - What is it good for?

The next column from Mr McCandless.. read on.

http://bit-tech.net/column/12/

 

People almost always consume art for one reason, to feel serious, almost empowered, in a world where nothing you can do actually matters. Be it music or cinema, so why not games.

 

...Absolutely nuttin'...

Sorry, just had to be the first the say it.

[Afterthought] Having now actually the article, I believe I can relate. I too felt that shock at the opening scene of SPR, and playing the Omaha beach mission in MOHAA brought it back again. What disturbs me though, is that the effect wore off. For me anyway. I can now watch the whole of SPR without flinching or feeling woozy. I can play games such as MOHAA, CoD and its ilk without feelings of doubt and remorse.

I know its been said hundreds of times before but people truly are being desensitised to violent media. Whether this is a good or bad thing is up to the individual to decide. As this happens, the producers of such media can push the limits a little more with each piece they create. Games like Soldier of Fortune and Kingpin made a huge fuss then they were released for their graphic violence. Yet more recent offerings such as Painkiller (zombies admittedly)and Farcry and the upcoming Doom and HL sequals dont get this treatment.

I wont mention details because I am sure you all know the recent explicit footage which shocked the world with its violence and brutality. I know people who have watched it over and over again, trying to determine its authenticity they claim. Personally I watched half then switched it off. The sick feeling caused by this lasted weeks, yet now it has faded.

And this is real life

 

I agree, but swear filter please

I'm not a huge fan of "realistic" FPS's I have a family connection with D Day through an uncle (he passed away 3 years ago) who was one of the men who got to the beach first in a canoe (Royal Marine Percival Stanley Smith on secondment to the SBS).
I started playing "medal of honor" but I stopped when my auntie asked what I had been doing and then started crying, I've never finished it. That finished any interest in playing that type of game. I don't like the trivialising of events that caused so many people so much pain.

I have a Friend who is currently in Iraq (maclogo if your reading this you know him too). He has a wife and 2 kids. I'd like him to come back.

 

One of my interests is WW1+2 i have watched coutless hours of WW2 and WW1 documeteries and studyed it at GCSE's level. I luv it and i cannot be any more greatful for those brave men who died for our freedom today.

I also luv to play WW2 games espcially DoD(Day of Defeat) a HL mod. i get a feeling that a kinda do my duty only by going as allies and killing nazis and very rarley go as Axis and fidn it hard to kill the Allies. for some reason.

I have to agree with this article as i sometimes do think of the footages of men running up the beach and un knowingly taking a bullet and pains me to say this have done nothing in term of fighting but have sacrificed there lives for us today.

i think it would be a great idea for game publishers like EA who have COD and moh:aa etc all WW2 based games to take some of there earings and give a little to those who died for us.

 

Perhaps you have to think in the other direction.

The games made you think about all those thousands that have died. I'm sure it made many of the players that played it think about it too. Isn't that worth it? How many times a day do you think of it? If you would not have played that game, would you have given war not less thought? You even wrote a column about it. That's, imo, showing respect to those that died. Thinking about them shows your respect as well, so if you play that game, at one point (like you did) you must think about the fact that this has actually happened. I'm sure every player did at least once.

I mean, playing those games make people think about the war, about the thousands that were mowed down. If they would not have played those games, they wouldn't have thought about the war. Thus, the games have actually a good influence on the players in term of history.

That's my opinion at least.

 

I happened to see bits and pieces of the aforementioned footage, but i heard the whole thing.

I definitely had the same reaction that you and the author of the article did, and I haven't played a violent video game in several weeks. (partially due to my graphics card being messed up, but i haven't wanted to try since seeing the video clip) The only other time i've ever felt that sick to my stomach was after driver's ed class watching those accident videos, then coming in to work at an auto shop and smelling the burnt plastic and metal on a car that had been dropped off overnight (nobody hurt, just damage to the car) but that smell brought back the images of people burned in car accidents and made it undeniably real.

I could probably pick up a panzerfaust and go have fun in RTCW:ET with some friends, and not feel too bad about it, but i'm sure i'd be reminded of the real world out there and that death is not fun.

Kudos to the author for a well written article, particularly poignent in timing as it's Memorial Day here in the states.

 

We're probably a good few generations down from the people that were involved in WW2, and although these games make us think, they don't really offend us.

If someone were to make a game based on the 9/11 terrorist situation, and all the crap that's going on at the moment, I'm sure it will upset and offend a lot of people...but make the same game 50 or 60 years on, and the designers will be able to get away with it...

 

Agreed. My Grandpa fought in the Pacific theatre in WWII. He earned the bronze star for bravery in battle, but he has NEVER told anyone exactly what he got it for. My Grandma (his wife) died not knowing what he did over there.
Don't think for a minute though, that people didn't ask.

We do know that he was a straggler, though. A straggler is a term for someone who's unit has seen so much action and taken so many casualties, that it can't function as a unit anymore. So the leftover men "straggle" until they're picked up by another unit.

Anyways... my point is....

There's no way we know what he went through, so we have no idea what it would've been like.
He won't watch ANY war movies. Not even the not quite so realistic ones with Clint Eastwood or The Duke in them.

My two cents...

 

I too feel the same way. I've played a couple of war games, but after being deployed in Iraq, I have .... difficulties playing them now. I can't watch war movies, especially Saving Private Ryan, and Blackhawk Down. The surprising thing is, it isn't so much the images, it's the SOUNDS. I was awoken nearly every night by mortars, and now that noise is hard-wired to my 'fear' system.
But, in a way, i don't think the movies or games using that type of imagry is wrong. like one put it before me, at least it gets people to think about it. i've had friends that now, for the first time, will celebrate Memorial Day because they connected what happened in the games and movies with real life. But, also as was said before, i wish the game's makers had given some of their money to chairity.
If someone came out with a "war in Iraq 2003" game, i don't think i would be able to play it, not for a long time.

 

I want to first point out a failure in your argument (as I see it).

You say the advertising claimed you could "be there, feel what it was like to be mowed down on Omaha beach without getting out of your chair or giving a moment’s thought for the people who died there", however you note a strange, queasy feeling you received from such games. So really... isn't the game doing exactly what it advertises?

Whether or not one gets this feeling, or associates it with the real events and the people who died in them- is simply up to the person, not the game. A developer cannot, try as they might, change the emotions of a player.

The new title by Ubisoft based upon the Band of Brothers novel/series is looking as though they are taking a stab at making it not only one of the most realistic depictions of the war, but also attempting to evoke an emotion in doing so. But can they really do that? Again, I must say- no they can't. People react differently. Period.

But as for the final point of the column- I agree. I would love to see EA or Ubi or Activision put some of the profit towards veteran funds of some kind. Is the game simply enough of a tribute? That one brings up a shrug. Thoughts?

 

Can anyone remember the A-Team? George Peppard et al, firing more bullets than they could feasibly carry, explosions causing cars to be ejected tens of feet into the air... but anyone see any blood, a bit of sweat maybe or a scratch!
Now. Compare that to the modern day blockbusters, such as those already mentioned "Saving Private Ryan".. blood and realism. I too was pretty shocked at the things I saw in that film: very thought provoking.

For me, its the same with computer games; as publishers and manufacturers strive to beat each other over sales, the level of "realism" has become more tangible. Graphics and animation have evolved to the point where people are prompting others to question (what you might call) the ethical nature of the games.

However once the initial "wow" factor has gone, some people like the author start to see the symbolism of what they are doing. Unlike the author, I do play fantasy games - I play games to escape for a few hours, not relive traumatic experiences.

Personally I believe there is a link between screen violence and the de-sensitisation of people to the atrocities that people are capable of. Are games
too aiding and abetting this social-disease (even fantasy ones!)?

 

The media has been desensitising people to this kind of thing for decades though.

A comment was made about the A-Team above, which was what 20 years ago now? Back when I was a kid watching the A-Team as far as I was concerned you could blow people all over the place and they'd just groan and stagger off holding their heads. People could have a machine gun unloaded at them and dodge every bullet.

Are modern day games any different for the kids of today than shows like The A-Team back then? They both give a disassociation from the realities of armed warfare, except in these ones you get to interact.

 

Well I curently have an Uncle in Iraq, hopefully he will get sent home soon because he is curently in hospital, after being injured, I have had, many other relatives fight in many wars, not one has died in war, if I remember corectly but still they where there. War is not a pleasant thing, but I have to admit I enjoy playing war games, I ejoy realism, however it shows itself. Having said that if they games wearnt made I would play something else I would not have to have a war fix or anything like that. And yes it couldent hurt for the companys involved to help out some people that gave thier lives so that they could develop those games and live in a free country.

 

I agree with you there. The part of the opening sequence of SPR that really spun me out was the intensity of the sound. Same thing happened with the Omaha Beach mission on Mohaa. Even though Mohaa has no blood or gore, the sheer volume and intensity of the sound, bullets whizzing by, explosions, ground shaking, really shook me.

 

My thoughts

I think the game companies should kick a little to the vets ... they could always use it.

But more importantly I think what the games do (and did in you case) is a good thing. While you may never have to see war these games are can be so realistic it does give a certian artificial understanding of what happened and what those people went through, more than what most people that were there could really convey. Just be thankful that when the dust settles your helping put your friends computers into a bag to go home and not into a body bag to be sent home.

And to a previous post Americas Army has been doing a darn good job of being realistic about death. You can die from a kill shot, and you can die from a non-kill shot if you dont get medical attention etc. and we all know this will grow and evolve until the only thing missing is actual pain, but with that and the future and Moore's law it may not be too long until that level of immersion in a game is possible.

 

I'm not sure exactly where to begin. I think the column was well written and brought up some very good points. I agree, as all of you have, that the game companies should forward some of the profits from the games to various veterans associations. After all, without the wars there would be no games.

I disagree, however, with the idea that mass media is desensitizing people to violence. There have been countless media effects studies done over the past few decades. Performed by psychologists, child advocacy groups and media groups alike, the only conclusion that is drawn from the studies is the fact that you can't really draw a significant conclusion. Most of the time the psychologists conclude that there are no real effects from media. Child advocacy groups will say otherwise while media groups will have you believe that mass media has no effect, whatsoever.

/begin rant/
The idea that kids are becoming more desensitized and thus more violent has been around as long as recorded history. Socrates was know to complain about how the youth of the world was getting worse and worse. Fast forward to recent history. How many people complained that Elvis' gyrating hips would cause the downfall of modern society. Acid rock and the hairbands of the 80s was supposed to be the end of the world as we knew it. Back in the nineties, how many people blamed the original Quake for their kids' bad bevahior? Since the human race first came about, people have been complaining about how youth are getting worse.

Every generation has some big thing that people will use as a scapegoat for the current problems of society. Something has to bear the brunt of our collective finger pointing, it might as well be pop culture.

Think back as recent as the 9/11 attack. In the immediate days following, many countries showered condolences upon the US. Our government leaders supposedly placed partisan politics aside and came together to help the nation overcome. Late night talk show hosts welled up with teary eyes and struggle to make sense of it all. For once, they were speechless.

But we overcame it all. Late night is filled, once more, with comedy. Our government is busy, once again, pointing fingers at each other, trying to figure out which party was to blame for the attack. The rest of the world hates us. Yeah, things are getting back to normal.
/end rant/

People overcome. People heal. It's just what we do. We're human that way.

I hope I didn't offend anybody, that certainly wasn't my intent. And sorry for the long post.
-monkey

 

I do believe we have been desensitized by the blood and gore (and bad language) of mass media. I know it has me. I can remember the first time I played Rise of the Triad, I played it for maybe 30 minutes or something then just had to quit, I had this weird feeling of almost guilt. In all of the shooting games before the enemies had been some disfigured creature or monster of sorts, not human beings. Fast forward to today: Half-Life, MOHAA, etc. are no problem for me at all, any of them.

Being desensitized doesn't mean you want to go out and start shooting people, just that if you see it there's less of a chance it will bother you any.

People it affects in the way that they want to do physical harm have serious mental issues because they can't differenciate between the real world and fantasy.

 

This is EXACTLY why I refuse to see the Passions: they're making money off of the death of their lord and savior! What the heck?

Although it's in a different area then computer games, it's very similar.

I sometimes feel very guilty myself, even when playing so very poorly replicated games like BF1942. (It's an amazing game, but the replication of maps like Omaha leave more to be desired)

I do not play Call of duty for that very reason. I do not play DOD, or any other more realistic and better replicated WWII game for that very reason as well. I just feel... like I'm violating.

This all boils down to death as well. We find killing things on our computer as fun. When it comes to real life, however, it's harder. Being in ROTC I know that If I contract I will most probably have to kill someone (well if the current trend continues) or I will be killed. What does this mean to me? Can I shoot someone in real life and have the same rush as in a game? Can I shoot someone in real life and feel as guiltess as when I play a game?

 

Ah, The Passion of the Christ. You've touched on a pretty big thing there. I agree with you to a point as far as making money from the religion. However, it really is no different than any other historical film. Whether or not you choose to believe that Jesus was the son of God, and that he is the savior of the christian faith, the fact remains that he was crucified for what he believed.

The reason I don't have too big a problem with The Passion is the fact that so many well-intentioned christians are completely misguided when it comes to the life and teachings of Jesus (not to mention the bible as a whole). For some reason people respond better to film than they do an hour each Sunday. If they can walk away from the film with a better understanding of who Jesus was, or if they come away feeling better about their faith, then the film played a good role.

I agree wholeheartedly that the people who use games as an excuse to graduate to real harm have some other problem in their lives, be it psychological or otherwise. I usually find that when someone has a moral objection to something, the media is rarely to blame. Usually the objection stems from some other past dealing with that subject matter. I think, for the msot part, if someone doesn't care for war simulation games, it's not necessarily because of the media. A lot of the time it is because of a personal connection to war, a close relative who was/is/died in battle. Unfortunately. More emphasis should be placed on interacting with children and helping them understand the difference between simulated violence and reality. When they can differenciate between the two, wargames remain just that, games.

-monkey