got them working! both brakes are on the highest tension hole (on any of the lesser ones there wasnt enough force to move the pads away from the rims) after much adjusting of the screws i have them both working reasonably well. occasionally one seems to stay on a bit, but i can live with that. time to buy another set for the rear now and i can have decent brakes that dont squeak and work properly at both ends! cheers for the advice guys!