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Motors What hot hatch for around £7000?

Discussion in 'General' started by mars-bar-man, 16 Apr 2013.

  1. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Which is why I will quote myself in saying:

    Like you say, it is to support a plethora of factors. But driving like a dick will wear that car down faster. And there is still no free performance, any engineer worth his salt would tell you that. Harder driving = more wear. There is no two ways about it. Don't drive like a dick all the time and you can rest more assured.

    Maps used to be safe warranty wise. However in the last couple of years it has become something that car companies can check and I've heard you shouldn't do it on cars 2010/11~. Especially with the OBD2 port mapping that is prevalent now. Essentially with a car still in warranty, don't do it.

    On older cars I wouldn't tell the insurance company. They also, with minor claims, won't be checking anyway. As much as they want to get out of paying you, they also want not to have to spend £ on checking. So if you need a new wing or valence or whatever, you are not going to be subject to the rigmarole of checking your config files. (Keep in mind that a decent remapper could restore your old config possible even for free. It's whether there is a date log that would be the issue.)

    This is all stuff I've heard from tuners I know that offer rolling road services and such.

    I agree with Alpha Angel's sentiment above; 320d BMW sort of performance is probably more than most need.
     
  2. mars-bar-man

    mars-bar-man Side bewb.

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    No BMW's really. They bore me when I look at them. My old 1l Micra gives me more of a sense of excitement.

    Sent from the Starship Enterprise
     
  3. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    I had no problems on my old x-type Diesel Jag, I ran that with a remap for 4yrs. Ragged the arse of it, and still was getting 38MPG out of it! It was still solid when I traded it in.

    Now the car prior to the remap would take off from 2k upto 3k rpm, and then anything over 3k, the torque would drop off. So you had a few seconds of warp speed, and then nothing.

    After the remap, the car would pull from 1250rpm to just before the redline, The torque was awesome, and really changed the car. You could be at 30mph in 5th, and then plant your foot, and it would take off! Something my Audi A5 lacks, but then that is petrol.

    It's not OBD2 that's the problem, it the latest Tricore ECU's that are hard to remap - But like anything, they will learn to decode it, and apply a remap. I had to go to Superchip for my remap on my Audi, as Celtic tuning at the time didn't have the means to decode it.

    Most tuners will sell you the flashing tool, so if your car does go in for a service, and the manufacture updates the firmware, you can still flash it back.

    Celtic tuning offer the emotion which cost £400 with your first remap, and then any additional maps are £100, so you can flash your next car for £100.

    Blufin Superchip offer the Blufin device, but once registered to that vehicle, you can't tune another car.

    You have never driven a car with that 1.8T engine have you? They are a very solid and widely used engine. Though other manufactures tend to de-tune the engine, with their maps. That's why you see 240PS 1.8T engines down to 150PS. Now I have seen many people running 300BHP out of that engine with no issues.

    Sorry for posting my clips again..:D



    My remap didn't effect my cost of insurance, as I said it was for economy. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18 Apr 2013
  4. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Driving harder will increase stress, but not necessarily wear (certainly not in a linear fashion) - engines are built to withstand huge punishment as standard. Even driving hard, a standard road car is comfortably within its limits of endurance; most manufacturers engine testing for durability is at least 200 hours at peak power with minimal (i.e. tiny detriments in performance) wear afterwards. Other tests include hundreds of cycles from cold to bouncing off the rev limiter until red hot and back again etc.

    Mapping hasn't been completely safe for many years now - the prevalence of clever ECU's has enabled dealers to snoop at any map alterations where necessary. Instead we're seeing an increase in the number of dealers checking before undertaking warranty work on the current generations of more highly-stressed engines.

    Most insurance companies won't check, and once upon a time the cost for declaring a map was huge. Nowadays the insurance Co's have realised that it's extremely common and doesn't necessarily increase risk, so the costs to declare have bottomed.

    On the subject of want/need performance, a car capable of 0-60 in sub-10s and cruising at 70mph while being reasonably economical is all any of us can possibly need. Want is another matter, and one which needs no justification imo. I love my buzzy little hatch, it's about as quick as a 320d, but they couldn't be more different cars without being convertibles or submersibles!
     
  5. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Sorry, I'm not saying OBD2 is a problem. I'm also not saying that new cars aren't harder. What I am saying is I've been told, by people online and by mechanics, that there are rumours that the big car companies will check for remaps as it is becoming more common. I've never Googled it, but I'd imagine there is at least anecdotal evidence out there.

    I love a turbo diesel car for the same reason also. Torque. The 330d for instance... :eeek: 380 lb-ft Although the constant shifting is a pain. (I'm hopefully buying a 320d over the next weekend or two depending on if I can find one that is post 2004.) But mileage for me is an issue. 1500 a week :( NOthing I'd imagine to your trucking miles though.

    Some of those VAG engines are amazing also. I think I said earlier in the thread, a friend had a 20v Turbo Golf and it was returning 40mpg on the motorways. Good for a petrol.

    Funnest car I've ever tried though was a friends Renault 5 GT Turbo. That thing was quick to 60, not much else though... fuel eco was, non existent. So was reliability. Handling was crazy.

    Lots of these test are done with frequent servicing over and above what they put down for your service miles you may want to add.
     
    Last edited: 18 Apr 2013
  6. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest



    Very true that! I don't NEED more power/performance - I WANT more power/performance! :D

    That's the great thing about light small cars, they are great fun! The 205 GTI was a great car too! My old Suzuki Swift 1.3 GTI was a great fun car, especially at 18! Who needed power steering then, I say! :D
     
  7. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Back in the days when you could argue about needing power steering... :D

    I always think sub 8 is deemed reasonably fast.
     
  8. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Don't get me started on the cars of the past! Fiat Uno turbo! That was a very quick car indeed! Then we start to look at the Lotus Carlton! - That was a family rocket ship!
    The space age dash of the Vauxhall Astra GTE! God I want to relive the 90's!! :D
     
  9. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    When you could still find cars from the 80s! Once I'm set up in new home, job and all, I'm going to buy a BMW E30 325 as a project and that will be my toy car from that day forward to the day I die (or sell it. SSSSSSHHHHHH...)
     
  10. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Precisely! Just checked autotrader for the 377BHP Lotus Carlton = Have a guess how much they are going for...:D Clicky:jawdrop:

    Should be epic! :)
     
  11. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    That's just about the truest thing I have read on the internet all day, bar none.

    In terms of power, there's two factors (IMO):
    Off-the-line acceleration - this is mostly overrated. Sub-10 is good enough for every day use. It's good enough to pull onto a freeway.
    rolling acceleration - this is used for overtaking mainly.

    When people quote 0-60(mph) or 0-100(km/h) numbers, they're mostly e-peening. I have had sub-7 cars in that regard. I have driven 5s ones as well. Sure, it's fun. At the end of the day, you're not going to be doing that a lot for a variety of reasons: a) Rims cost a fortune b) Tires cost a fortune c) there's traffic most of the time, which can't do 0-fast in that time. So realistically, you spend most of your time puttering along at normal speeds and under normal conditions. This makes your hotted up car more expensive than everyone else's but not much else.

    Rolling acceleration, on the other hand can be a blessing on highways and long roads. Sadly, a lot of hot hatches don't do well here due to the small engines. Big engines work well there.
     
  12. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    Being older then I used to be (a fairly inevitable state most of the time), I actually prefer in-gear grunt to off the mark acceleration. It's kinder to the tyres too, and epic on the motorway. 6th gear, 70mph @ 2,200rpm, then a quick prod of the little pedal and you're doing 90 @ 3,000rpm a few seconds later.

    Works best for me.
     
  13. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

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    Don't forget the Escort RS Turbo, especially the series 1.

    Nope, never driven one. The one linked was the 150PS version, which could be a little underpowered for what is a sport's car. The low weight might well counter that, and still make it a hoot to drive, just wanted to check.

    I'd suggest you seriously consider a 330D over the 320D. The reduction in efficiency is minimal, but the jump in performance (especially after a re-map) is substantial. The 6 pot engine is meant to be a lot nicer sounding, as well as smoother as well. I still wish I'd got a 330D instead of my 320D. Not saying the 320D is a bad car, it's still damn good. Mines done just over 100k miles now, and there's virtually no faults.

    The only two issues are the hadbrake (it's just a complete pain, always sticking slightly, despite re-building the things with new shoes, and fixing gear). The other small issue is the airbag light being on. After replacing both seatbelt pre-tensioners, I've narrowed it down to a faulty connector under the driver's seat that will need chopping off and soldering.
     
  14. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    Christ! That is a lot of cash.

    You need torque! TORQUE! ARGH!!! Nom nom nom nom nom...

    I would do if the insurance wasn't £300 more and the fuel eco going down. Just not feasible now.

    Maybe once (I had a driving sabbatical after being a **** when I was younger 100 times too often) I've got a fresh no-claims and another year under the belt. (I have to say I've only had my driving licence 2 years despite having driven for much longer. How the past can haunt you if you are a moron like me.)
     
  15. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Well - I would beg to differ, as we all get those mad moments (or is it just me? :worried:) of giving it some stick on a quiet road.

    In regards to your 0-60 - In a family car, then yes those numbers do mean nothing, as you generally drive it sensibly. But lets take my old Nissan Pulsar GTI-R. Now I first bought that stock at it's claimed 220BHP and 0-60 in Sub 5 secs. Which for a car of it's size and weight, was insane performance.
    After a few thousand spent on a whole engine rebuild, unrated internals, Blitz ECU, bigger turbo, FMIC etc, it produced 380BHP and 350 ft lb of torque. 0-60 was cut down to 3.5 Sec, Yes 3.5 sec! (The type of car you could redline - Drop the clutch - And take off! No wheel spinning! 4WD was awesome on that thing!)
    Now I used to rag the Arse off that car too! Lol. Any chance I had at launching it, I would! Tyres/fuel/mechanical problems was not my biggest priority- The Adrenaline rush was! God the fun I had from leaving all those in the big cars like the M3's and big AMG cars behind! Their faces when they have just been blown away by a car that looks like a standard 1.6ltr with a body kit.(Boyracer type car - When in fact the body kit is stock with a turbo charged 2.0ltr lump!)

    Oh - I think I might have to buy another for a project car! :)
     
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  16. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    I had a friend with a Pulsa that failed its MOT before it arrived. He'd modded the exhaust to go straight out the front through a motorcycle silencer. They told him that they'd heard it from about 10 minutes ago and no one in their right mind could swing it through.
     
  17. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

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    God I lusted after a Pulsar GTI-R when I was in my teens!
     
  18. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    The only other person I knew who bought one regretted it. Unless you can feed it an endless supply of money and clutches, you are a prisoner to it.

    @True_gamer. That also reminds me. My friends work tuned a Renault 5 GT Turbo to do a sub 4 second 0-60. It was on 13" wheels mind.
     
  19. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    This is the only pic I have of it... Wish I took more, but they all got lost when my parents updated to a new PC several years ago...

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    Sleepers are best. Like that 1200hp '72 Chevy Nova all over the net.

    I'd like to own a standard looking family hatch with 1200hp. It'd be fun.
     

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