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Other What's ruining your life right now?

Discussion in 'General' started by TheMusician, 28 Oct 2009.

  1. Pete J

    Pete J Employed scum

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    I almost always check the route home from work prior to setting off. Naturally, everything is buggered on the few times I forget.
     
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  2. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    Same.

    Every! Damn! Time! :wallbash:
     
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  3. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    And now it now randomly works...

    How? Why? **** knows...

    this was totally worth ****ing everything with a windows reinstall...
     
  4. ElThomsono

    ElThomsono Multimodder

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    AI, it's just so ****.

    I hate that people are interacting with it for every little thing, I hate that people trust it and can't tell the difference between a ChatGPT output and Wikipedia.I hate the few generic stupid art styles it's managed to emulate, and all the crap I've had thrust under my nose as a result. It can do one or two things well but for the rest it's like a self driving car that only goes off a cliff every other journey.

    God it's ****, its only real "killer app" is spreading lies and misinformation, which is the opposite of what the internet was designed for. Urgh, it's like the people on Facebook are now running every element of things.
     
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  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    On the positive side, the bubble is now entering the "VCs would quite like their promised return now, please" phase - which is the beginning of the end, at least in the bubble's current form. Anthropic is trying to take Claude away from the $20-a-month subscribers (which won't help, 'cos the estimates I've seen suggest the company is burning $8-13 in costs for every dollar it brings in), OpenAI is shunting people across to cheaper models whether they like it or not, and Microsoft - friggin' *Microsoft*, which owns desktop computing and runs one of the largest cloud infrastructures in the world - has just closed sign-ups for GitHub Copilot while removing the most expensive models from those who already have it because it's just a massive money pit with zero path to profitability. I'm also seeing rumblings about the rising cost of all this leading to "AI layoffs," where companies are cutting their AI spend in favour of hiring actual (cheap) humans again.

    Given what studies have shown about the scale and speed of mental atrophy experienced by the users of generative AI, we're going to be in for Interesting Times when people get priced out of using the things. There's going to be a strong jobs market for people who've sensibly steered clear, I reckon - though potentially only amongst the rubble of the companies who put all of their money into AI and lost the lot come the bubble's true burst.

    Oh, which reminds me of one more point: studies continue to show marked mental degradation from the use of generative AI, which is rapid and long-lasting... which could potentially open companies insisting on its use to workplace injury lawsuits. We can but hope!
     
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  6. Byron C

    Byron C I was told there would be cheesecake…?

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    I've said this for a while, in a couple of years it could lead to quite a nice little consultancy/contractor market for people who haven’t outsourced their thinking to an answer-shaped-object generator. I quite fancy the idea of actually being able to retire, instead of working to my grave.
     
  7. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    There were similar studies back in the day for what TV was doing to people, what video games did to people etc, etc, every new thing introduced seems to come with a study or popular opinion it is going to destroy humankind :D It never does, things change, we adapt, it is sad to see the number of people using Gemini AI responses to solve questions when they are fed wrong info though, filtering the good results from the bad is required, still AI did help the root cause analysis of the co-existence issues on my Laptop, so you know, if you have half a brain you can use these things as a tool.

    Of course I only have half a brain if I keep using it studies suggest I will only have a quarter left soon :D
     
  8. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    There were also studies about what tobacco was doing to people, and what asbestos was doing to people, and d'you know what? Turns out they were absolutely right.

    To say nothing of the environmental considerations: these companies are talking about spinning up datacentres powered by gas turbines which will put out more CO₂e than entire nations. Or the ethical considerations. Or the fact that you're making people like Scam Altman and Pedo Guy rich(er). Or the fact that the output is crap. "It keeps getting better, use the new model!" Oh, the new model that OpenAI just put out, which is twice the per-token price as the one it replaces? That new model? The output of which is still crap?

    "I told it to make me an app that does X, and it did!" Yeah, and it's crap (and probably violates about eight different licenses from the projects the code's stolen from). Sure, maybe it works. But you can't build software like that. The technical debt companies - and I'm talking at-scale, here, if you use it to make a ten-line bash script to automate something then you're probably going to dodge all this but I'll still judge you - are building up is staggering. Have you seen the Anthropic "Claude is written by Claude" code leak? It's horrifying. It's a house of cards built on a foundation of investment ice-cream, and it's going to give. Microsoft claims it's moved a lot of its development across to AI (at the same time as putting a "Copilot is for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer on the thing(!)), and GitHub has never been flakier - not to mention Windows.

    "It's just like having a junior (or, in these days of 'agentic AI,' a hundred junior) developer(s) working for me!" No, it's not. D'you know what happens when a junior dev makes a mistake? They learn from it, and eventually - surfing on the crest of a wave of a million mistakes - become senior devs. D'you know what happens when Claude makes a mistake? It "apologises," tells you you're amazing for catching it, rewrites half a dozen files to introduce a handful of new problems while potentially but not definitely fixing the one you found, and then Anthropic doubles your subscription fee. What it does not do is learn. Oh, sure, they've got "memories" and "soul files" (ugh), but they're constrained by the context window. Unless your codebase is tiny (in which case why the hell are you using gen-AI) then it ain't going to be able to hold both all the code and all the documentation and have any room left for your prompt, never mind the "memory" of the last time it screwed up the codebase.

    There's a thing in right-wing, Christofascist, hard-C Conservative circles: "the only ethical abortion is my abortion." Sloperators are the same: "Yes, there are ethical problems, there are mental problems, there are scaling problems, the people who make it all are universally terrible and definitely don't have my best interests at heart, the way they work means they can only ever deliver statistical mediocrity at best, but I'm different. I'm special. I have broken through the surface and spoken to the ghost in the machine."

    No. Just... no.

    ...I should probably write the stuff I'm actually supposed to write today...
     
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  9. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    You could, but it might not be as satisfying to write or to read than this was.
     
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  10. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Yeah, we have access to various models at work via GitHub CoPilot or whatever it's called, and Opus 4.6 has a "premium request" multiplier of x3.0. Opus 4.7 is... x7.5 - and that's the "introductory" price, and will go up to somewhere in the region of x15-x20 apparently. And of course Opus 4.6 will be removed at that point.

    It's almost as if these AI companies are operating on a fundamentally flawed business model where they lose money on every usage, and now need to start jacking up the prices in order to lose slightly less money per customer.
     
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  11. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    I've been seeing the occasional story about AI-focussed companies actually hiring human programmers, for the coding jobs that they deem "aren't worth using an LLM token for".

    Bubble? Meet pin.
     
  12. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

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    I’m assuming a lot of them will be experimenting with the Google turboquant which is supposed to reduce ram utilisation by up to six times, to offset these costs somewhat. But even if they do, I doubt they will tell us and just keep charging!
     
  13. Byron C

    Byron C I was told there would be cheesecake…?

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    We have Cursor at work, and our usage is monitored - not targeted, but Questions are Asked if we're not using it routinely. So - and I'm aware that I risk of incurring @Gareth Halfacree's judgement - I do use it routinely... I almost always give it guff and disregard what it generates, but for the sake of my continued gainful employment, I do use it.

    I noticed the Shiny Fancy And New Claude models popping up the other day, so tried it out. And later on I realised that I'd accidentally left that model selected, and decided to check my usage dashboard... Cursor puts you in a "Max" mode for some models, which basically means "API pricing" instead of their usual "500 requests per month" subscription rate limit.

    This is one single request I sent it, and not a particularly complex one:

    [​IMG]

    17.8 million tokens and 1,480 "requests". For a single prompt.

    It was never a sound business model. Never.
     
  14. GeorgeStorm

    GeorgeStorm Aggressive PC Builder

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    I mean nobody can deny how impressive the tech has become and how capable they are, I mean I'm no fan but I struggle to take people seriously who consider them useless (not simply they don't like them/don't want to use them which I think is a valid point of view). Do I think it's a bubble? Yes of sorts as in clearly the numbers don't add up at the moment but the idea that it'll collapse completely I don't think so, I mean they are only going to get better, and if you compare now to even just a couple of years ago the differences are significant.

    I have access to Junie as part of Rider and am trying to utilise it a little more often as a sounding block at least, but I can't get behind those who think they'll solve all problems, AGI/ASI/whatever the term is, and we'll be solve aging (not actually something that I'm sure would be good?), no need to work, utopia type stuff, or those who have added into every single aspect of their life. I also don't understand openclaw.
     
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  15. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Yeah, if they establish a price point and massively reduce costs, they'll ride that wave right up onto the beach. Genuine competition would gradually erode that but this lot are circle-jerking each other so hard there's no way they aren't colluding on price
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Never going to happen, calling it now. The reason the models are getting better is 'cos they're ploughing more memory and compute into training, inference, or both. Look at Byron's thing: the model has to burn though millions of tokens in order to look smarter than its predecessors. They're getting bigger faster than optimisation can improve: the new DeepSeek-V4-Pro is a 1.6 trillion parameter model with a one million token context window. The original DeepSeek-R1 was 671 billion parameters. Sure, you can quantise down to reduce memory requirements, but every time you do so you lose precision (I mean, literally, that's what quantising is: changing from BF32 or FP32 or whatever to INT8, INT4, I think some places are even messing around with INT2) and the model gets that bit less capable.

    Think of it like this: I'm typing this on a computer which is orders of magnitude faster than the one I first got on the internet with, back in the mists of time. Yet its day-to-day performance feels near-identical, bar how quickly I can download porn stuff. The software's requirements grew at pretty much the same pace as the hardware, so everything feels as slow as it ever was - bigger, shinier, higher-resolution, but not really any faster. Instead of accepting the improvements to make things faster, developers opted to grow their software's complexity - either adding new features (websites are still slow 'cos they download and execute literally tens of megabytes of JavaScript just to show me the homepage) or just failing to optimise like you had to when 640kB was enough for anyone.

    LLMs are the same. Nobody's going to use TurboQuant to make their LLM run as good as it does now in one-sixth the memory, they'll use it to make an LLM six times bigger run in the same amount of memory (which will then be, oooh, I dunno, a generous 10% better than the current one?)
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2026
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  17. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about, G. Having increased capacity for the same cost is still reducing cost.
     
  18. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I'm not talking about increasing capacity (i.e. you can have six million users instead of one million), I'm talking about making the models bigger so their responses seem better - which is what they're all competing at now. They'll still only be able to support one million users, the costs will be unchanged, but the models will be six times bigger.
     
  19. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Surely they can monetise the increase in model size, no?
     
  20. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You mean make it more expensive? Sure, that's what they're already doing - but as Anthropic found out when it tried to move Claude from the $20 a month tier to the $100 a month tier, there's a limit to what most people will pay - and it's a very, very low limit. If you replace ten $20 users with one $100 user, you've just halved your revenue - and if that 'power user" uses the same compute as those lightweight users combined, you've quartered your profit.

    But that's separate to my point, which was that there's no future in which any of this gets cheaper for end-users. (Which may have also been your point, too, of course - I think I may have misinterpreted your "ride that wave onto the beach" metaphor!)
     

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