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Who will you vote for at the next election?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Solidus, 24 Mar 2022.

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Who will you vote for at the next election?

  1. Conservative

  2. Labour

  3. Liberal Democrats

  4. Other

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  1. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Quite the opposite, I want every vote to be equally represented and I want all families and society to benefit as a whole.

    Treading on others to make my life better is not something i'm comfortable with.
     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    As Gareth says, is it really? Have you checked?

    Yes, because that is what society means. As an EU national I could only vote in local elections, but I never, ever voted Tory --even though as a high-earning NHS clinician I've benefited from their policies more than, I suspect, you have. I vote not just for me and mine; I vote for a better, fairer society for all.

    Now here's where I have to call BS. Look at the rise in house prices vs wages:
    [​IMG]

    Moreover annual University fees went from £1000 to £3000 in 1998, and then to £9000 in 2012. Fact is: there is no chance that the younger generation can still afford a professional education and a house, without crippling themselves in debt.

    At the same time final salary pensions have disappeared, and the state pension age has risen to 67, and is due to go up to 68 soon.
    [​IMG]

    And then I'm not even talking about the rise in food and energy costs, more pandemics on the horizon, pollution and global warming starting to make itself felt, and distinct signs that the Western world as we know it is about to undergo some drastic changes.

    So: it's a tough time to be young. No wonder if they live for today, because tomorrow is unaffordable.
     
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  3. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    I’ve benefited just fine and so has my family. Would I under labour? No. Do I believe in the crap that comes out of the mouths of the conservatives? No.

    So which is best for me? The ones that give me a little more in my pocket and makes my life easier in the short term even if I know the world is about to explode or another party offering me far less on the promise that society will be better when I’m not here to enjoy it?

    I’ll take the former. I’m sick of giving up on and taking a back seat on what matters to me for the benefit of others. Others can quite simply do one. Go and make there own futures rather than expecting others to do it for them.

    As for housing pricing and the wages… the pathetic 1.5% on a mortgage today or the 15+% some had back in the 90s? Payments were relative to salary so your graph is balls and only highlights what you feel is appropriate to your point rather than the reality of the world we have lived in and where we are now. A poster child for what is wrong with the world. Nice one. One way or another life will always find a way to screw you. Cheap housing with extortionate payments each month or expensive houses with cheap payments. You choose. End result is the same.

    Education means nothing these days. Everyone needs a degree to pick up dog poop in a park and those with experience are the ones wanted and sought after so the abundance of degrees in youngsters are often overlooked because who fresh out of uni has 3+ years experience? Very very few.

    Kids need to get a grip, decide what it is that they want to do and go for it rather than pulling generic degrees to find themselves in huge debts and unable to get a decent mortgage. You say they can’t get started because of this. Your right. But how many of them actually use that degree? I don’t know many and those who do thrive because they work for it. Those who don’t, well.. it’s everybody else’s problems bar their own isn’t it. That’s no way to live. What ever happened to upskilling on the job?

    Path of least resistance is the nature of most people in the world. Why expect anything more than what’s on offer when you can do naff all and pass it by?

    Dumb decisions made by kids because of dumb promises of “you can be what ever you want to be” by teachers and those of influence is an issue that is always overlooked and probably one of the biggest issues I have with the world and the systems that control us. Education needs fixing. There’s nothing to distinguish between someone who has a degree and something going on between the ears and someone with a degree and who doesn’t. Why would a business take the risk? We need to go back to learning on the job more. There’s too many degrees not getting paid back because people aren’t earning enough (some by choice, some because lazy, some because unlucky, some because useless) and when did this “you can be what ever you want to be” nonsense start? Under labour when I was at school.
     
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  4. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    If there ever becomes a time when you need to make an impossible choice you will understand. Until then if it makes you happy to sit by the above then you should do exactly that and I and many others wouldn’t ever see fault in that. If someone happened that required your stance to change then again you should make that change. Only when those around you judge you for that is there an issue.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    1970:
    Average yearly wage: £1,204. Average house price: £4,690. The average house cost 3.89 x the average yearly salary.
    Mortgage rate: 7%. The average net monthly repayment by all first-time purchasers was £19.75 in the first year =19.5% monthly income.

    2019:
    Average yearly wage: £26,208 Average house price: £234,853. The average house costs 8.96 x the average yearly salary.
    Mortgage rate: 3.94%. The average net monthly repayment by all first-time purchasers was £674 in the first year = 31% monthly income.
     
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  6. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    a period of hardship of 12 years? If you've been in power for 12 years you can't keep blaming the previous party.
    I'm 25 in 2 months. My mum is a single mother working for the government as a foster carer under minimum wage if you do the maths but she does it as it helps the most vulnerable. For me to buy a house, even my council house with right to buy requires me to save such an astonishing percentage of my wage and use every potential avenue to increase it be it a LISA, ESPP, Crypto. Don't get me wrong, I still get to buy nice things, I save a lot. I also pay my mum in rent way above what it costs her so she has money to spent. But my house being 2 bedrooms and worth £350k in a not great area while my salary being absolutely exceptional for my age due to the hours I've put in still makes is impossible to get a loan from the bank.

    The conservatives constantly blame the previous government, They've been in power for 12 years ffs. "But imagine what it would be like under labour!!" - Red faced gammon. Look how ****ed we are now. "but we're in a pandemic", it was ****ed before. "Well I'm fine", You're a ****.
     
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  7. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    You've no idea of the impossible choices I've had to make in my life.

    I'm not going to belittle them by turning it into a competition nor because you think I just don't 'understand'.

    I understand and disagree. You can accept that or not.
     
  8. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    My impossible choices are my own. Yours are yours.

    You don’t understand them and you never will just as I won’t yours. So for me to put my family first and not give a damn about someone else’s isn’t something I should be judged on.

    Get wronged by enough people and your faith in people dwindles until there’s very little if anything left.

    So to conclude, who I vote for doesn’t matter. Who you vote for doesn’t really matter either. With all the promises come compromises and those affect people one way or another be it positively or negatively. Nothing we can do about it. The worlds corrupt. You just have to live with it.
     
    damien c likes this.
  9. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Bit-Tech Cat. New Improved Version.

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    If you vote Tory, you are voting to promote corruption, you are voting to promote lying, you are voting to promote inequality.

    There are politicians who want to do better, they are the ones to vote for.
     
  10. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    This is the crux of it, isn't it? And indeed it's the crux of most conservatism: everyone's a **** except them. This lacks a really basic empathy in my mind. How can you look at someone struggling, or homeless, and think something like "They deserve it", or that they want to be in that situation?
     
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  11. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    Who would that be in this country? regardless of political affiliation politicians are just people and unfortunately people are prone to these things, if you are not Tory it doesn't make you any more honest a person.

    I will do as I always do, read the various manifesto/policy of interest, laugh at the lack of substance and pick the one that seemed most sound to me, one that tells you what they are going to do and where the money etc is going to come from to fulfil the document of hopes and dreams, oh wait hardly any of them do that!

    The reality is that no party can turn this hugely debt laden ship around, all policies talk about that fallacy of extra investment to support the poor and disenfranchised whilst simultaneously lowering the hard working peoples tax burden, it just can't be done without first settling your books but no one going to vote for decades of austerity with mass spending cuts, the head in sand and ignore is the preferred status quo.

    Which ever clown sweet talks you into your next vote won't change a great deal, it'll just be another clown juggling debt with no really power (money) to do anything without robbing one group to fund another.

    Anyway, Go Boris, at least he brings some comedy to the role whilst being as ineffective as everyone else :D
     
    Last edited: 25 Mar 2022
  12. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    I won't be voting.

    In a previous election a campaigner came to our house and I said the same. I got schooled on why having my voice was important, any why voting for their candidate was particularly important. I semi-patiently allowed them to finish before mentioning that I'm not eligible to vote. Which puzzled me since I'm pretty sure the clipboard they had in front of their face had the electoral register on it.

    I don't honestly believe there's a single prominent politician out there (i.e. that stands a chance of actually attaining any say), regardless of party, that isn't in it wholly for themselves. They project a public image based on whomever's vote they're going after. You don't rise through the ranks of any modern political machine being altruistic.
     
    Last edited: 25 Mar 2022
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  13. ElThomsono

    ElThomsono Multimodder

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    You reckon they'd have twigged sooner, what with your being a squirrel.
     
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  14. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    How dare you. Squirrel voices count too!
     
  15. Spraduke

    Spraduke Lurker

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    Politics definitely took a turn for the worse when it became about being a career politician rather than someone with decades of experience in the workplace/real world who decided they wanted to make things better. This is same problem with having all teachers coming straight from Uni into teaching. All they've ever known is the world of school/academia and society is surprised that kids come out of school not knowing what they want to do - they have no role models in schools.

    Career politicians fall into this category. They only understand the world of politics and are completely disconnected from what the majority of the population experiences. Ministers then end up in charge of health, schools, social care and surprise surprise they don't have the foggiest what policies are even remotely reasonable to implement and definitely don't know how to make them better. You wouldn't hire a manager into a business if they have zero experience of that industry/sector so why do we allow it to happen with Ministers.
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, but also no. Having someone with experience of the portfolio they're ministering is an approach, sure, but potentially not the most optimal.

    The ideal approach - in my opinion, anyway - is to have a minister who is great at ministering but who listens to the civil servants under them. They're the ones who should have experience, leaving the minister to be experienced in ministering. Under this, it should be perfectly possible to bounce a minister from education to health to culture to defence and always get their best - because they're doing the same in all scenarios, listening to them wot actually know then politicking it.

    What we actually get, of course, is a bunch of self-serving idiots who think they know best at best and at worst just take on roles in order to enrich themselves, their families, and their friends.
     
  17. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I would vote, but that's not an option for me.

    If I was voting, it'd be in a Tory stronghold - Same MP for as long as I can remember. I remember the tomato faced prick visiting my primary school.

    Still. Last time I voted I voted LibDem, despite the uni fees kerfuffle, because at the time their manifesto was the least objectionable. But I realise I essentially threw my vote away, because Fabricant has been the MP since 92, and short of dying or retiring, I don't expect that will change.
     
  18. Arboreal

    Arboreal Keeper of the Electric Currants

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    I'm in the same boat as @liratheal and @ElThomsono .
    In fact, I'm the other side of town from ElT, but with a different MP.
    In his favour, like or loathe his politics, Tobias Ellwood has had a military career before and showed some backbone when the HoP were under attack.
    How would I vote? Not sure, as there is an unbeatable wave of Blue (rinse) that keeps anyone else out.
     
  19. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    To quote Billy Connolly:
    The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever being one.

    On a more serious note, I do believe there are some who seek the office who are, to begin with at the very least, genuinely going into it with a desire to serve. However, very nature of political life, making compromises on one issue in order to make ground on another issue that you believe is more pressing/important is gradually corruptive process; where each progressive compromise becomes easier to live with.

    The problem is that those that do not lean towards compromises rarely find the support to get anything done and fail.

    I think it's known as being captured by the system.

    While I believe the real problem is the system itself, I don't think any of the current options offer any appeal. The problem there is the decision to not vote only helps the incumbent and I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT THOSE ****ERS IN OFFICE ANY LONGER.
     
    Last edited: 25 Mar 2022
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  20. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    I mean we agree on the first point, perhaps not the latter.

    Although I'm not entirely sure how much my grumping will change anything.

    Then again I'm old, therefore I grump.
     

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