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Who will you vote for at the next election?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Solidus, 24 Mar 2022.

?

Who will you vote for at the next election?

  1. Conservative

  2. Labour

  3. Liberal Democrats

  4. Other

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  1. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Agreed.

    As it stands every vote is not equal, in many constituencies they effectively are useless.

    I mean in 2019 The SNP got a seat for every 25,883 votes, the Tories one for every 38,264 and Labour got one seat for every 50,837 votes.

    LibDems needs over 300,000 per seat and the poor old Greens over 850,000. I mean it's nonsensical.

    If every vote was equal it may actually encourage more cooperation than the combative style of politics that ends up just being a pantomime.

    I care not for any particular party. Hell, Id take previous Tories over the current inept bunch of self serving lying halfwits - they're not even really Tories to be fair, that'd mean considering anyone other than themselves.
     
  2. Byron C

    Byron C Official Necromancer

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    For general elections, it's Plaid Cymru or I spoil my ballot.

    Westminster and its politics is broken and corrupt. The only thing that could possibly change my mind is true proportional representation, and that's not likely to happen any time soon. Not even an overwhelming Labour majority would be enough to restore any kind of faith or trust in Westminster - they would still inhabit the same broken system.

    Our constitution, unwritten as it is, relies on tradition, precedent, and doing the right thing; the Tories demonstrated time and time again just how meaningless those protections are.

    Westminster is utterly broken.

    I mostly align with the Greens also, except for two key areas. I could possibly live with their anti-nuclear stance, but they're in favour of having the NHS pay for quack nonsense like homeopathy and that is absolutely indefensible.

    You couldn't possibly be any more wrong. I had more written out but clearly you're not here for discussion or debate - I'm not gonna waste the effort.

    PS: Ad-hominems are an absolutely perfect way to advertise just how meaningless your "argument" is, so thanks for saving me the effort of trying to read everything you've posted since :thumb:
     
    LennyRhys likes this.
  3. IamJudd

    IamJudd Multimodder

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    I've voted Green for the past 8 years just as a "fu ck you".

    FPTP is utter ass. When the world is as ballsed up as it is, I really don't know what my vote actually does apart from keep the same sh!t-sandwiches in power. Bill Hicks basically had it pegged and he died at 34...

    Politics in America - YouTube

    Bill Hicks explains US Presidency - YouTube


    My Dad is a staunch Conservative voter - his reasoning was always, "Labour spend so Conservatives have to pull the belt in tight and get us back on track". I don't agree with most of his political beliefs but he's 71 and "remembers" a time before the Euro and Brussels etc...
     
  4. ElThomsono

    ElThomsono Multimodder

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    Nonsense though it may be, the placebo effect does work and I could deliver homeopathy with a fraction of the budget it would take me to provide actual treatment.

    Wouldn't be my first port of call, but I could live with it better than I could a Conservative government.
     
  5. Byron C

    Byron C Official Necromancer

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    What people think of as "the placebo effect" is not a physiological response to a sugar pill or "positive thinking". It's a widely misunderstood "catch-all" term for uncontrolled noise in a study's data: inaccuate self-reported symptoms, regression to the mean, natural course of the disease, etc.

    In any case, the details of what "the placebo effect" is or isn't is somewhat irrelevant to my point. If something is going to be funded on the NHS with taxpayer money then its efficacy should be supported by the best available scientific evidence. When "complementary medicine" or "alternative medicine" meets that threshold it ceases to be "complementary medicine" or "alternative medicine" and becomes simply "medicine".

    Quackery like homeopathy is extremely dangerous, and funding it on the NHS is an indefensible abuse of public funds.
     
  6. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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  7. ElThomsono

    ElThomsono Multimodder

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    I mean, I get you, but when it comes to choosing a political party I'm making such massive compromise that a thing like that suddenly isn't such a major deal?
     
  8. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    The Green Party don't officially endorse homeopathy. It's certainly not in their manifesto.
     
  9. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    Just checked, 1991, Jan 15.1% on tracker vs 1.44% on current offer issues start of feb 2022. Not meaningless at all. You obviously have no clue about what happened back in the 90s, how many lost houses due to the rates and how screwed some people ended up for years with the negative equity issues that followed from a crash. Perhaps you were too busy not wanting an argument and we’re out to “fact check” without actually doing as such. Moron.
     
    Last edited: 26 Mar 2022
  10. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    I mean what happened in the 90s was that interest rates started high (the 80s were shocking) but throughout the 90s they continued a downward trend.

    That trend continued in the 00s. The 00's were stupid though, we were offering over 100% LTV mortgages. It was never sustainable.
     
  11. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Let's take those figures at face value - assuming that you would have paid 15.1 per cent for the entirety of a 25-year mortgage in 1991 (you wouldn't) and that you'd pay 1.44 per cent for the entirety of a 25-year mortgage in 2022 (you won't.)

    20 per cent deposit, 25-year rate, average house price.

    [​IMG]

    In 1991, your average house cost £58,250. Based on the above, you would have paid an £11,650 deposit leaving you with £46,600 to pay; the interest would have totalled £133,545.49 making the total outlay £180,145.49. Add the deposit back in, that's a house for £191,795.49.

    In 2022, that same average house is £240,000. Based on the above, you would have paid a deposit of £48,000 leaving you with £192,000 to pay; the interest would have totalled just £36,743.08 but the total outlay comes to £228,743.08. Add the deposit back in, and you've spent £276,743.08.

    (Incidentally, if you'd bought said house from the 1991 owner, they'd have walked away with a cool £48,204.51 profit - straight from your 2022 pocket into theirs.)

    So, even if we assume that you somehow fixed your 1991 mortgage at the absolute worst possible rate in decades for the entire mortgage period... the house still cost you less than it would today. By £85k.

    Ain't maths fun?

    EDIT: Forgot to include the total house cost including the original deposit; corrected Mr. 1991's profit.
     
    Last edited: 26 Mar 2022
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  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Exactly. And as I said before:
    So 11.5% extra of your monthly income goes on mortgage these days.
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Oh, and don't forget the fact I was basing the calculations on an "equal" 20 per cent deposit, which means Mr. 1991 had to save 317 days' income for his deposit while Ms. 2022 had to save 675 days' income. Just to hit the same 20 per cent deposit level. More than twice as much work, for the deposit on the same house, which ends up costing more overall.

    If we ass-you-me that both individuals can put away 20 per cent of their income (a great target, but typically unachievable for the majority of working youth), that means Mr. 1991 saved up his deposit in four and a third years; Ms. 2022 took nearly a decade.

    Then Mr. 1991 tells Ms. 2022 that she could buy a house as easily as he did, all she has to do is give up avocado toast and pull herself up by her bootstraps. Furrfu.
     
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  14. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I feel like it should be legal to force feed anyone who says 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' or any variation there of in a non-sarcastic manner a whole pair of boots.
     
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  15. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Let's not forget the true crux of what made 90's mortgages so "terrible"; endowment mortgages and the house price crash. A mortgage where you'll get money back at the end because "banks". Only people didn't get money back, just a big "whoops sorry" and then you were paying for a house that had lost 20% of its value. But by the early 2000s that had gone back up anyway.

    If anyone genuinely thinks the Tories have their best interests at heart after the last 3 years, they're delusional. Or you're of the select few they siphon money off to. Lying, thieving, conniving little ***** the lot of them.
     
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  16. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    Not actually bad considering the increase in population, the lifestyle changes of that population (less big families in housing etc) the reduction in social housing and the glacial pace of the housing stock increase in that time. ~60 million people into ~20 million houses is going to cause a pricing shift particularly around the areas of good prospects.
     
  17. Byron C

    Byron C Official Necromancer

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    Cool. Cool. Can you lend me £35,000-£45,000? 'Cos that's what you need for the deposit (10-15%) on a £270k house (avg. UK house price), and extra to cover: solicitors, conveyancing, surveying, removals, repairs, refurbishment, stamp duty, etc.

    FWIW - not that you're interested in anyone but yourself - the interest rate does not concern me, nor does the monthly repayment. Given a suitable deposit and average mortgage rates, we can afford to pay off mortgage of £270,000 within 15 years. But there's that little stumbling block in the way: the ****in' huge deposit. It's taken me the 14 years since the financial crash to get back to the point where buying a house is an option again.

    And you know what? I damn well CAN afford to save ~£30k-£40k over the next couple of years, that's exactly what I plan to do. But our combined household income is more than double the UK average, so we've got it easy. Millions of people in this country are not so fortunate.

    Do yourself a favour and pull your head our of your arse once in a while.
     
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  18. loftie

    loftie Multimodder

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    Is/Was vote for policies. Seems it's being rebuilt, but i dont know how long that's been going on for.

    https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/

    Made my aunt do it, then she refused to believe that she'd mostly voted for Labour policies.
     
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  19. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Probably lib dems.

    I'd vote labour, but I don't believe in them any more. After the debacle of the 80s where Thatcher cancelled everything that wasn't for the rich I could never vote for the tories. Ever. Even at the last election I voted in I voted for the tramp (Corbyn). Even though I couldn't stand him.

    People say they vote for whoever will make their life better. That's the "I'm alright Jack" problem. People are too selfish and don't look around them.

    You can say what you like about Blair. I personally hate the guy myself. However, having lived in a situation first hand? I know the difference between then and now.

    When I came home into the mental health system in 08 it was completely different. I was quickly helped, quickly referred to the local mental health centre and for better or worse have been there with my quick diagnosis ever since. Since then? well first of all no doctor is allowed to diagnose any one any more because of the financial implications on the govt. I have seen it time and time again. An ex user of this forum spent 7 years trying to find out who he was. It took him 7 years to get there. During that time he was struggling, and his life was a bit of a mess. He did not have the correct financial help he needed.

    For me? the first two years were bliss. Appointments every two weeks, help, medication and quick actions to prevent me from going downhill. After that? well let's look at now. I go twice a year now. If I am lucky. At my last appointment? it had been a year. I asked in desperation for something for my anxiety, they changed a load of my pills but just for everything else. Once again I have been through hell for the past four months and I am pretty much still there. They also changed my sleeping pills for ones that don't work, so now I need to fight to get the other ones back. That were not working very well any more because I have been on them for ten years.

    I get assessed every year and dragged off to appointments that not only make me ill at the appointment but ill for several months leading up to them. Under labour? I was seen once. I was told, and I quote "You may hear from us in 5 years but looking at your diagnosis and your problems that is doubtful". In the years after? I was put in the WRAG. I had to go to appointments and embarrass myself by either freaking out and smashing things or crying. I had to fight to get into the support group.

    It's been a nightmare. It was bad enough of a nightmare before the Tories got in but now? jesus. I just spend my life praying the pills keep working because if that stops? I don't know what I am going to do. There is nothing there at all.
     
  20. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    Depends on Policies etc.

    If I had to vote for the Local MP today it would be the Conservative because frankly the state of the current Labour MP's in my town are well let's just say if either of them turn up on my doorstep they will be told to leave and if they refuse they will be physically forced to leave.

    If however they are replaced by new MP's then I will listen to them and see what them and the Conservative MP's have to say and then make a choice.
     

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