Again, where is the actual connection between Reform UK and the organisation of the riots? Stupid people will do stupid stuff because they want to and just need an excuse, any excuse, mob rule and that, I'm mean we are all guilty of assuming stuff, me I would be assuming that lot wouldn't be smart enough to vote in the first place but as with yourself I have no proof of that.
Its quite possible I need help because seeing these things on the Internet does not motivate me or anyone I know to go tearing up the town, nor would it any sane person. The problem here is not a political party but an element of society looking for trouble, nothing to see here, quite a stretch to use that as the rationale for Reform causing the riots I will struggle on and find a way to survive without your valuable input.
Please quote where in the thread you saw anyone claim that, because I can't see it. Otherwise, I call strawman fallacy.
Fair enough perhaps it is distorted interpretation of those posts, just a strange thing to do to link the riots and reform.
No, it's not, for the reasons detailed above. EDIT: And here's more, even though I should be working: "Opposition to the riots is near-universal across every part of the public, with Reform UK voters being the only group showing any substantive levels of support, at 21%. Reform UK voters are the only voting group to support the wider protests the unrest is stemming from, with eight in ten (81%) saying they support them to some degree. Again, Reform UK voters are more likely than others to think the unrest is justified, at 33% [...]" "Half of voters think Reform leader Nigel Farage is responsible for riots, poll reveals." "Former counter-terror chief accuses Farage of inciting Southport violence." "One in ten Reform voters say the far right riots made them feel 'proud'." "UK Riots: 'We are a Christian country!' Reform UK's Rupert Lowe rages at mass migration amid wave of unrest." "Nigel Farage sparks anger over 'inflammatory' Leeds riot comments." "The role of Reform UK in fostering far-right riots is plain to see."
If your standard for “causing the riots” means “directly organising”, then no: Reform UK did not directly organise the rioting and terror attacks seen recently. But they didn’t have to. Nigel Farage and other similar figures have been at the forefront of anti-immigration rhetoric for decades. They have worked tirelessly to foster a culture and an atmosphere in which “hostile environment” is no longer simply a slogan. People feel not only comfortable but justified in carrying out the attacks seen recently. Attacks which, I remind people, involved: pulling people from their cars and beating them because they’re not white and are therefore an immigrant; attempting to burn down a hotel used to house asylum seekers and murder everyone inside; calling for mosques to be bombed; and other such shining examples of human behaviour. You don’t go from “I can’t get a job and public services suck” to “it’s the immigrants’ fault that everything sucks, let’s beat and kill them” overnight.
I have deleted some absolute bollocks from this 'ere thread, and to head off any more: no, we're not being flooded by "illegal immigrants", they don't commit crimes at any higher rate than the native populace, they're not taking your jobs or stagnating your wages, and they're not a drain on the NHS. If you believe otherwise, you have been lied to. Stop demonising immigrants, and maybe turn your ire where it belongs: Farridge and his ilk's a good place to start, along with actual convicted illegal immigrant Stephen Yaxley-'Oor Tommeh'-Lennon.
I'm starting to think a politics thread isn't necessarily what the board needs. Everyone is far too polarised and entrenched in their views these days thanks to social media and the nature of the algorithm keeping everyone in their respective bubbles. Frankly, it's not worth the effort trying to educate people on the internet. Their mind is already made up if they can't recognise the grifters behind Reform et al, no amount of facts or debate is going to make one iota of a difference. You'll just get wound up, as I do reading this thread sometimes!
I think this thread is perfectly fine and to be honest, the general standard of discourse in here is very civilised (certainly compared to the rest of the internet, which in fairness is a very low bar). There's some disagreement, sure, but the vast majority of the time it's well within the lines, at least IMHO. I also think it's perfectly possible to disagree with someone or rebut their points without trying to "educate" them. It's a discussion forum, after all
See, I disagree… Social media definitely doesn’t help, but what does help is talking to people. Being non-judgemental. Trying to understand someone else’s point of view, even those you disagree with. In fact especially those you disagree with. You don’t have to try to change people’s mind, and trying to do so can be pointless. It’s confrontational, and it automatically makes people defensive. You retreat to the safety of your “tribe” and suddenly it’s no longer about talking to people and understanding their point of view, now it’s my tribe against your tribe. But the reality is that people have more things in common that bring them together than they do things that drive them apart. Of course social media - which includes this forum - doesn’t help foster that kind of environment at all.
I think that's where most arguments do arise from, the assumption that "I'm right, they're wrong. I'm sure if I share all my sources they'll come to their senses and change their position." doesn't fare well online! I just keep out of these things when someone's opinions are so far removed from my own it'll only end in tears confronting it head on. Working with quite a few anti-vaxxers and 'just-asking-questions' conspiracy theorist enjoyers only helps to discourage me more...
The problem is... sometimes you are right and they are wrong. Like, we're not talking issues of opinion, here. I can like the colour orange, and you can prefer the colour blue; neither of us are wrong. But when one party says something like "immigrants commit more crimes than the native population," that is wrong - and we know it's wrong because we have actual figures that say it's wrong. A point of fact, not a matter of opinion. Now, it would be very very nice indeed if people who have managed to get a counterfact wedged in their head, either through misinformation or disinformation or however it got there, did come to their senses when presented with the truth of the actual fact. Again, we're talking facts and not opinions here: I'm not going to try to convince you orange is superior to blue, but if you say the moon is made of cheese I might throw a few NASA survey results at you...
Also, imo - Not all ideas/positions are worth engaging with and engaging with them on any level does more harm than good. Take Tommy Ten-names... Waxy Lemming or whatever his grifting arse is calling himself this week... Ah screw it, @Gareth Halfacree put it better than I ever could.
You had better not, everyone knows damn well that purple is the pimpingest of colours! Aye, I'm much less stressed keeping clear of it.Others tend to put forward what I'm trying to communicate much more coherently, plus I don't end up with a headache.
I've been reading newspapers recently, every couple of weeks I'll buy the Guardian or Sunday Times and read it cover to cover (excluding the sport, obvs.), it's a good way to escape the filter bubble. Between the two I get a sort of central spread, and it's quite fun to hide behind a giant broadsheet.
