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Why are full screen adverts back on Bit-Tech?

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by greypilgers, 4 Jun 2012.

  1. Sea Shadow

    Sea Shadow aka "Panda"

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    It is certainly possible, I've seen it done on other sites. I would even accept that as a reasonable compromise if it was implemented.

    Also Nexxo....
    For as large as this site is, and for as many dedicated members as it has. I think your argument of a pricey vBulletin package is a farce. Such funds could easily be covered by the normal use of advertisements. Not only that, but we are running on a dated version of vBulletin, and with prices like this, what is the excuse for using such a dated solution? In addition, your "free" argument is tripe [see my counter argument below].
    [​IMG]


    I've said it before and I'll say it again, we as the members of Bit-Tech are more than just potential clicks, we are the content creators. You say that we use this site for "free" and I think that couldn't be further from the truth. While there are plenty of people who just visit, click a few links, and leave. The site exists because of the time the members put into the site. I haven't even made anything of particular notoriety and I can recall many, MANY hours writing up and formatting posts. I can only imagine how much time has been put into some of the larger project logs. When compared to a project log, an article is nothing (I still respect the time put into writing up articles, but at the same time acknowledge the MASSIVE investment of time for a log).

    I think this point is reinforced even more now that the site has had to resort to talking about the great mods of yesteryear to use as content for the site. Not that I mind the articles, I really enjoy them. However, this only serves to further prove my point that the members drive the forum, and we create the majority of the content that brings Dennis money.

     
    Last edited: 18 Jun 2012
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  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I concede that is a good argument. How can we place that argument in front of Dennis Publishing without going through staff who are fundamebtally disempowered in this?
     
  3. Teelzebub

    Teelzebub Up yours GOD,Whats best served cold

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    Perhaps Sea Shadow should do a petition thread setting out the argument against this kind of intrusive adverts and the affect it is having on forum members and everyone who supports his stance post +1

    If as they say Dennis takes note of the forum they can see it for themselves
     
    Last edited: 18 Jun 2012
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  4. whisperwolf

    whisperwolf What's a Dremel?

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    You don't need yet another thread, this one works just fine. and Dennis will most likely do the same thing they've done for all the other stupid adverts that caused problems to the site. Namely
    1. Take note that something has upset the forum users.
    2. Take note that they've been paid X amount of cash to run ad campaign
    3. Go "Oh well the users don't like it, but its only got 2 more weeks to run, just keep it there but go very quiet on the forum front"
    4. Leave the unpaid mods to field numerous complaints
    5. Politely ask the advertisers to not run that style of advert again in the future and show feedback of response.
    6. run that type of advert or a worse one again because the advertiser doesn't really care about site feedback and look at the size of the cheque.


    It’s been a looooooong time since Bit actually pulled ads that were problematic, namely before they got bought by Dennis.
     
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  5. Teelzebub

    Teelzebub Up yours GOD,Whats best served cold

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    This is what the petition would have been in support off.

    There's nothing quite like a constructive approach is there ;)
     
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  6. Baz

    Baz I work for Corsair

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    Right then. Simon's on his holidays right now, so I'll field this. We're most certainly not steering clear of this thread, and are always listening.

    First up, the IE9 campaign. I understand you might find it intrusive, but this is an ad deal booked right across Dennis Publishing's range of websites. It's not going away. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's the situation. I personally didn't book it, I don't personally benefit from it beyond my usual salary, but I understand the need for it. Bit-tech is owned by Dennis Publishing and while we can, and do fight our corner for particularly disruptive ads (and have had numerous examples removed from the site in the past, despite what some forgetful might say), we can't keep bit-tech ad-free or else we wouldn't get paid. We reign in the ads team, but we can't stop everything, and network-wide ad deals such as the IE9 one running on bit-tech right now is one of those that isn't really stoppable.

    The other alternative of course is a pay wall, charging users for full access to reviews,forum rights, image hosting, project logs etc. This isn't the spirit of the site and not something we want to do (and judging by the feedback from the briefly paid-for android app, would go down as well as a fart in a crowded elevator). We've also discussed requesting donations or demanding revenue from the For Sale forum transactions, but again this would be hugely unpopular and horrible to implement. We're a professional business, with a huge user base, and such monetisation options just aren't practical.

    Those complaining about forum costs/ad intrusion. It costs thousands to keep bit-tech up and running each month. Web hosting, image hosting, freelancers (me), web developers. It adds up fast and isn't as simple as a single payment to vbulletin each month. Every piece of front-page content needs to be paid for, edited, and usually photographed. People don't do this for free, and bit-tech's primary revenue stream is display ads.

    Talk of it being better 'years ago' would do well to remember that whole global economic downturn thingy over the last few years. Standard display advertising rates online have been hammered by dropping ad budgets, and advertisers have to use more eye-catching and (sometimes intrusive) ads to garner attention. This is apparent pretty much everywhere you go online, not just at bit-tech.net

    :sigh:I'm on your side, really. I'm not a fan of the IE9 campaign running right now, but I understand why its there. Content and services aren't free, no matter how entitled to it the online masses think they are.

    We don't ask much from you, our readers. We don't have pay walls, or VIP areas, or charge commission or for early access to reviews. We give you (hopefully) great and entertaining content, a working forum packed with handy features like the market place and image hosting. All we ask is that you look at our ads (and if you're feeling generous, click all over them). If you do insist on running ad-blocker to kill annoying ads, can I please ask that you just use it to nuke the offending ad rather than a blanket ban? 95% of ads on the site are unobtrusive banners and MPUs.

    Thanks for listening

    Baz
     
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  7. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Thanks for the reply, Harry.

    Can you at least tell us (if you know) how long the IE9 campaign will run? I'm sure there are a number of us who plan to use blockers only for the really annoying/intrusive ads.
     
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  8. Baz

    Baz I work for Corsair

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    I'm not sure I've been so insulted for a while; thanks for marginalising my profession so succinctly. However, I will point out that, to my knowledge, the majority of bit-tech's traffic remains the front-page content, and that the site depends on these articles to drive traffic.

    A graphics card article such as the GTX 680 launch took me upwards of 100hrs to attend the launch,benchmark, write, graph, photograph format and edit. I would call that a pretty massive time investment.

    We have not, as you say "resorted to the great mods of yesteryear." More modding content was specifically requested by the readers and following our restructure this year, we wanted to place more emphasis on modding content. That's why there is now shed-loads more, from the Mod-gods, to the the case mod index and beyond.

    However, perhaps I should calm down. Its not the members or the staff that drive bit-tech's success. It's a symbiotic relationship where both benefit from the others work. However, marginalising the hard work of site staff is NOT fair.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jun 2012
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  9. noizdaemon666

    noizdaemon666 I'm Od, Therefore I Pwn

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    I must admit, I did use an adblocker for a while, switching it off every now and then to see what had changed. Now I leave it off permanently as I seem to have got used to just clicking the close button on the banner/IE9 ads. It doesn't particularly bother me anymore, nor does it detract from Bit-Tech use.

    I guess I'm in the minority, but like Spreadie and Baz said, just block the really annoying IE9 advert rather than all of them.

    Edit: Oh and I garee with Baz on the point of project logs being more time consuming or whatever than an article. I hadn't realisedf that an article from start to finish could take 100+ hours though :jawdrop:
     
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  10. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    i used to always have no adblocker, but the annoying intrusive adverts have made me put one on, if they stop, the adblocker will be turned off, so normal ads can resume.

    the readers also provide a lot of free help to other forum users, which in turn can bring in more readers/users via google et al, so potentially more revenue from clickable ads.

    i use ie9 already, and have bit-tech pinned to my taskbar, cant they write into the code to detect this before displaying it?
     
  11. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    It's OK though Harry charges £25/hour ;)

    Alright he wishes he did...
     
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  12. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    I think that there is a real split in the user base of the site. Some are hear for the articles and staff side of things, then there are those that are here purely because of the other users.

    Most of the annoyance seems to come from those that are here for the forum only.
     
  13. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    I still read all of Bit's content - the forums wouldn't be here if it weren't for the main site after all. It's be nice to see hardware podcasts back and some more blogging of course, but since all the contributors are now freelance I don't know how that would work.
     
  14. coolamasta

    coolamasta Folding@Home CC Captain 2010/11/12

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    These stupid in your face adverts are really starting to do my head in now especially the ones that take up a lot of the screen and stop you clicking on links such as the IE9 ones. Some just sit there and hang for 10-20 seconds meaning nothing you click on works, so bloody annoying :wallbash:

    I can live with simple adverts that are non-intrusive as I understand that advertising has to be done to help fund hosting etc etc but adverts that stop you using the site normally are frustrating, can't BT just stick with the 1 box at the top of the screen that displays adverts like most other forums?? :rolleyes:
     
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  15. Toka

    Toka Minimodder

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    You are awesome Baz, so are all the BT staff to be fair, the quality of your more detailed reviews is up there with Anand et al. And you have a lot of passionate users which is great for this sites continued existence.

    However, and no matter who's fault it is, the ie9 is just amazingly, awe inspiringly, heinously bad. As long as it doesn't descend into attacks on the quality of your work or the site in general I think you should accept the feedback and pass it onto the people who can do something with it.

    Then you should go play Dwarf Fortress :)
     
  16. DragunovHUN

    DragunovHUN Modder

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    We're not asking for bit-tech to be ad-free, far from it. What we're saying is the style of ad that the ie9 campaign uses is extremely inconvenient and does not work for us at all. Even those scam/survey sites that exist for the sole purpose of generating ad revenue don't tend to have ads this cheeky.

    If it has to run its course, then so be it, but we want Dennis Publishing to see this feedback and actually look at what they're deploying on their websites in the future. At least don't accept ads that show up and take control of the page on every single page load. How that even came to exist is beyond me, but i guess the numbers look good even though this ad campaign probably just makes everyone hate ie9 with a passion.
     
  17. Baz

    Baz I work for Corsair

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    The feedback will certainly be passed through myself and Simon to the higher-ups; in the end we have to look after our readers and the IE9 campaign is clearly causing upset. However, right now there's not a great deal I can do:wallbash:.

    I must admit though, that it running in IE9, with bit-tech already pinned is mind meltingly silly.:waah:
     
  18. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    What makes you say that? There are one or two that have claimed most of the content is generated through the forum, but I don't get the impression the majority are here exclusively for the forum.

    The content on the home page may be slow in coming (my pet gripe), but it's usually of a very high standard.

    As others have said: we accept the need for ads - and it's insulting when people preach as though we don't understand that - but campaigns that are as intrusive as the IE9 banner or the full page ebay ad are over the top, and almost designed to annoy.

    Is that the plan - piss us off for a few weeks with IE9, so we'll keep schtum when Dennis reverts to ebay pop-ups? ;):p
     
  19. haggisathome

    haggisathome What's a Dremel?

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    i will install adblocker , never had to use one before but ... well there is a first time for every thing ! :sigh:
     
  20. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    I'd like to know (but know I'll never) what percentage of ad views are driven by the forums and what by the articles and price paid per view on each, then do a little cost-return analysis.

    Obviously its not that simple, the site drives traffic to the forum, forum regulars stick around for the articles. But I'd be willing to bet the forums return a better margin than the main site. This isn't an attack on the good stuff that's articles and on the "main site" more a point that user generated content is cheaper and that upsetting the few users that generate that content and ruins the "community" is a fairly short sighted way to try and monetise the user base.

    Even a user base running ad block is better than none at all, if folk are still here you can at least try and convince them to unblock the ads, once the community disbands its gone.
     

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