Well I think mother-gooser made a better point then im about to make. Your damn right i've never "studied" art, law or psychology and thats because I would bother wasting my time (save for psyc perhaps) the only degree worth working for is a professional one and those are not them! You say for every art grad flipping a burger theres one curating a museum, well let me ask you this for how many chartered engineer's or doctors are there doing that same job? And how many of those people, with professional degrees, are complaining about their degree not being worth it? yeah im sure the people doing degrees in sports, hospitality management, computer games design (not the programming aspect) etc are challanged to the max! The pressure must be enormous, thank god I chose I easy route and did a masters in electronic engineering.
You think there's nothing involved in those degrees, but you'll never actually know. Why? You don't bother because you think there's nothing involved. You don't need to take a module in formal logic to find the fallacy in that argument. To think that everybody must do a job that is directly related to their degree shows a misunderstanding of what they are really for. Degrees aren't just about vocational education, they're about gaining a set of skills and using them intelligently and independently. In many cases people go on to jobs unrelated to their degrees - but this is because that degree shows that those people have the mindset and skills to function in that job. For example, a large number of boardroom executives have degrees in things like classics and history. I don't think that they spend their time reading Homer, but they get the job because graduates from those subjects have a good set of analytical and deductive skills. And in any case, what happened to learning because you're passionate about something? Do you expect all those people who have an interest in art and want to study it in more depth to do degrees in electronic engineering?
I did (and dropped) a module in computer games design/graphics, it isn't easy, the maths is insane. My housemate was doing automotive engineering and even he was stumped with some of the 3d calculations. Hospitality management sounds like the joke degree of your Uni, we had disaster management at coventry. The one thing I would say about hospitality management is that whilst the degree may not be the hardest, the job is tough, you've got to be pretty thick skinned to do it, from my consultancy experience they don't get much respect for the amount of effort they put in. Where as an electronic's engineer, tough degree, but not such a tough job (in the respects of stress and people chewing you out). Myself, I have a BA (Hons) in multimedia computing, and I am a Graduate System Testing consultant. Word of advice, testing is as boring as it sounds, don't do it....EVER. I'm going to join the City Police hopefully and use the "high achievers promotion scheme"....you have to educated to graduate level........but.....it isn't a grad scheme.
/OT I didn't realise hitman012 had been made a moderator. Well done, chap! I went to Uni, failed a BSc (Hons) Visualisation course at Teesside (passed all modules apart from 3 core ones in the last semester of the first year - 3d maths, 68k assembly and another one which eludes me at present), then went on to do a HND in Business IT. It's helped me get where I am, but not where I want to be tbh.
68k ASM would be Principles of Computers/Computer Systems now, I think they've learnt from experience and feedback and split it into two modules.
I love free uni! I certainly didn't feel ready to take up a job when I finished school at 17. Uni has been a great experience so far and definitely worth while. If I work hard and get a good degree, there's certainly some good job prospects out there.
Without job experience and social networking most degrees are only worth the ink used to print them. Wasted six years at a state university trying to get a degree in Ecology that means little in the real world. Unless you qualify for student employment and work within your department the chances of getting a job in the State of Maine Interior Division, US Fish and Wildlife, Conservation, US Game Service, and State Park Service is zero. Eventually I got the degree and now have a very hard time finding work as I did did not qualify for student employment and lost out on all the jobs offered by graduate students, professors, and summer internships. Most state employment agencies are very wary of hiring someone of unknown merit. Private employers won't touch a recent graduate with little work experience in their field of study even if they are willing to learn and work for pennies.
In reply to the inexperience of graduates: if you are fortunate enough to enroll in a program that is offered with a co-op implementation, then your likelihood of securing post-graduate employment become fairly high. That isn't to say that by simply being in a co-op program ensures a job, the co-op element is an undeniable opportunity to job network and, above all, gain field experience.
It is gratifying to know that my job as clinical psychologist, which requires two degrees in psychology, is not really a "profession". Next time I have to talk some desperate psychotic out of killing themselves, or hold the hand of a dying cancer patient, I'll call an electronic engineer. I'm sure we'll all feel a lot better.
You've obviously never taken many products through tapeout or had to work on cutting edge designs and technology like myself or you'd know how incorrect that statement is.
those who don't have experience when going for graduate jobs, one question: why not complete a placement year before leaving uni. Or even find part time work in the area of study?
That's short sighted and ignorant. The reason you and others have this opinion is because people who are pressured to go to uni choose these sorts of degrees because they think they are easier. It's just like choosing media studies at A Level. Just because it's not scientific or lands you in a job straight away does not mean that it's a waste of time for everyone.
What an amusing (yet sad) story. Awesome lesson though. Basically, my first year at college was a complete waste of time and money. Classes were useless, social life sucked (even by my low standards), and everything else was completely impractical for what I want to do. Not to mention that most people who went where I did were stuck-up rich kids with no real drive or talent. So lucky me, I'm officially taking a year off right now, but tbh if I go back anywhere it'll just be some easy and cheap place for the sole purpose of getting the paper. I've heard directly from the people that I'll need to deal with that the only purpose in getting the degree for what I want to do is show that I can stick with something, as it's completely worthless for showing skills or competency. As it is, I'm making decent money for my age and qualifications right now (esp. for what's officially a summer job at the moment), and I could easily quintuple that if I start advertising as a web designer. I'm much happier working than I ever was at college, and as a bonus, I'm getting paid rather than being charged a hundred bucks a class.
Personally I've never felt that a degree is a guaranteed progression onto a higher-paid career than someone with A-levels outside your chosen field. Obviously engineers are almost infinitely more likely to get a job in their field if they have a degree, but as a general tool for progression? I can't say it's as worthwhile as people say it is. That said, I've never really viewed my degree as a progressive tool - obviously it could be an advantage at some point, but I did my degree because it's interesting, and I wanted to learn about my field and have the University experience. After all, it's said to be the best years of your life, and I'm inclined to agree. Even if I flunk out this year (or next year), I'd say it was a worthwhile experience, if only to say I've been there and done it. If I hadn't at least tried a degree, I'd have regretted it for the rest of my life, and that's something I don't want to have bearing over me for the next half century of my working life and retirement. As for waster degrees, I don't see Psychology, Law or Sociology as that, the ones I do see as a waste are along the lines of Media Studies - not the ones with actual experience with broadcast/filming equipment, the ones which are just a class-based thing, they seem to lead to nowhere, but I'm sure someone's said that about every subject. It's a bad stigma to have, and I shouldn't, but there we are.
I don't think any degree can so easily be called a waste of time. That sort of opinion devalues everything that so many people strive to achieve. Could I have studied Engineering? Sure. I even considered Veterinary Science. In the end, Art has always been my passion, so I chose that route. I know what interests me, and now I get to do it for a living. I get paid to do what I love. How cool is that? Hospitality Management sounds similar to a field of study over here called Restaurant, Hotel and Institutional Management. If you think it's an unprofessional waste of time, then be very glad that you didn't choose that field. Furthermore, why do so many people keep comparing Masters- and Doctorate-level studies to 4-year programs. That's a bit lopsided, don't you think? -monkey
Come on now Nexxo, you know that wasn't exactly his point. You can't deny the influx in 'friendly' degrees such as (apologies if this offends) social sciences and such. At Teesside, for instance, we have 'Crime Scene Science/Forensics' and it's likely that a very small percentile of graduates will actually make it into the force as a forensic scientist. All I know is that my degree has been invaluable and has tought me so many, many skills. And now it's over, I'm beginning my own company with the confidence and strength I have gained. @ Doug: Didn't know you were gonna do CGP man, it's a damn good course. And art? What the hell?
I think 'pure' subject degrees are far more useful to people looking to make use of their degree in the real world. Engineering, art, science, mathematics, whatever. I just finished a computer science degree at UCL, and i must say it was utterly incredible (and i strongly recommend the course to anybody considering it - do the 4yr course!), and all the courses were very much grounded in real life, through real life clients for larger courseworks, constant examples and case studies, etc. most importantly, it has taught me how to teach myself, and that, is really what uni is really about at the end of the day.
Not at University of Waterloo, you would. I'm changing to another university because, for the astronomical premium that I paid for the 'best' education, Waterloo crashes and burns. My co-worker is graduating from the institute with a degree in computer science, plus 6 4-month terms of paid co-op placements. Compared to his brother, who graduated with the same degree in the same program at a different, and fairly cheaper, school, he's learned absolutely nothing to prepare him for the real world; his brother is, by leagues, a more seasoned person in his field. The recent trend is, no matter how reputable your institution may be, skill and experience (judgment, really) are the defining values; and the teaching methods are a sizable influence on how well you develop these skills. There's simply no substitute for experience.
Of the 27 people I know that graduated that course, 12 are working for the police in the 999 area, 13 are starting on the bottom rung of the ladder and 2 are taking a gap year. Well, it's more the game designing aspects of it, my imagination isn't brilliant but as I say, driver development has attracted me like a moth to a 2GW lightbulb
