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Wikileaks' latest leak

Discussion in 'Serious' started by tristanperry, 28 Nov 2010.

  1. eddtox

    eddtox Homo Interneticus

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    Sorry, I was thinking of general banking facilities rather than credit-based ones. AFAIK, wikileaks wasn't borrowing any money from Visa/Mastercard, they were just banking with them.

     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    There is always a choice. There are other global payment technology companies such as Wirecard (German) and JCB (Japanese). Wikileaks could also open "legal discourse" (as you euphemistically put it :D) and in fact has started doing so.

    A lawsuit is embarrasing for Visa and MasterCard not so much because they could lose the case, but because the reasons for their decision to drop Wikileaks will be exposed to the world and picked over in meticulous detail. If they did give in to political pressure, they'd rather not reveal that --plenty of big money customers out there have business interests that may conflict with those of the US goverment. How secure are your financial transactions, Mr. oil baron/weapons trader/dictator? Puts a whole new spin on: "What's in your wallet?"...

    Meanwhile PayPal appears to have reconsidered its position and states it will return frozen funds to the Wikileaks fund raiser.
     
    Last edited: 10 Dec 2010
  3. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    Haha, I couldn't help but notice that Indian media outlets are running wild with Wikileaks while they've got their own sh*tstorm brewing.
     
  4. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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    Im a bit confused as to what the arguement is here? Some people saying credit card companies have the right to do whatever they want because of ToS, they have the right to not do business with someone?

    None of that matters.

    3 very simple facts, very important facts i have yet to see in this topic.

    1. Wikileaks is by no means a terrorist organisation, under any law anywhere, it's only pulishing something it was given. It's freedom of press, freedom of speech. Since when was it espionage to release infomation that the government is commiting espionage? It's just plain stupid.

    2. Paypal, Mastercard and Visa stopped providing their services to Wikileaks because, AND ONLY BECAUSE they were forced to. Paypal claimed it was due to Wikileaks breaking their terms and conditions. That was an absolute lie, they were asked "nicely" to close the account by the US governement. The KKK recieves donations through paypal and they have long since been branded terrorist organisation...

    Wikileaks is flapping America's dirty laundry in the wind.

    3. Julian Assange is not a US citizen, so how can he be breaking American law? Explain that to me? He can't.

    When a government becomes destructive to its own ends(which Wikileaks have proven many times over) it is the RIGHT of the people to expose the god awful bloody mess. It is as simple as that. Theres no if's or buts about this, the person who stole the files in the first place is a criminal legally. He is breaking laws in this case, but wikileaks is simply the messenger.

    And do any of you think it's ok that certain Universities in america have been saying to the students that it may threaten their future if they read these leaks, they may not be able to get the job they want if they are after a government job, which i suppose is right in a way, seeing as they maybe handling sensitive info.

    But the fact remains, Wikileaks is in no way criminal, they stole nothing, they have only shown the people that their government is as bent as a bra underwire.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    1. Governments will argue that freedom of the press/speech does not apply to classified information that is a matter of national security. Similarly there are laws against disclosure of industrial classified infoation, and private information. Freedom of speech does not allow me to chant your personal affairs, social security number or bank details. There's limits, y'know?

    2. Probably. But they also have a clause that says they will terminate a contract if it is used for illegal activities, lest they become accomplices. So if it is argued that what Wikileaks does is illegal...

    3. A foreigner can be prosecuted under US law if he commits a crime on US territory or against a US citizen or US company or threatens US national security. Stands to reason, kind of. Whether Assange has is another matter, but the law stands.
     
  6. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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    All these comments are perfectly valid, no arguments there my friend.

    But for numbers 1 and 3, both arguments rely on the bogus believe that these leaks could cause the deaths of american people/soliders etc etc, that has yet to be proven and will never be proven because as stated time and time again, no names are mentioned in these leaks. The fact it's a matter of nation security can be held against anything... anything at all which makes it absolutely pointless. He has commited no crime, he has just proven to the world, its actually the government commiting the crimes.

    And as for Number 2., again point is perfectly valid, however thats not my point, my point is is that the KKK is deemed to be criminal and they can still take donations through paypal, so why has paypal decided to stop wikileaks, wikileaks hasnt said anything about them, they gave into government pressure, that is obvious.

    It all stands to fact its guilty untill proven innocent, when it should be the other way round. Wikileaks has commited no crime as they have not put any lifes in danger, or threatened national security. Chanting bank numbers and such isnt the same as what they have leaked is it really? So far have these leaks caused loss of life, endangered anyone or cause a third party to act on the infomation in anyway criminal? No, as of now.

    Hence wikileaks cannot be branded as terrorists. Time will tell.

    I do like how most of the attention is directed towards "THE HORRIBLE EVIL" that wikileaks has apparently done, yet hardly any mention of the fact that, AGAIN, the governments of the world are liars and out for their own gain.

    And just as an edit, i think you'll find the road towards getting someone who isnt a US citizen is a very slippery one, theres so many things to consider.

    EDIT2 sorry things keep popping in my head: he's currently not wanted for anything more than these sex offences, they can't get him for anything else because of all the above, they simply have no case against him.
     
    Last edited: 11 Dec 2010
  7. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Nexxo, I noticed this morning that your signature file contains a few extra digits. Kudos, my friend.

    :)
     
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    :D

    @hellblazer.doom: I am pointing out that there is a valid legal framework for the accusations that are made. It is simply that the accusations themselves are not valid.

    1. The information that Wikileaks released is not actually classified. It is confidential, but not national security material. But even if it was, a 1967 US court ruling (I forgot the name) determined that a newspaper can release classified information as long as the paper itself did not engage on criminal activity to obtain it.

    2. Hence Visa, PayPal and the likes have no valid grounds fir cancelling the Wikileaks accounts. Indeed, Visa is currently being challenged in court and PayPal is about to re-open the account.

    3. Assange has not actually broken any US laws. If he had, we'd be seeing extradition requests. Instead he is tied up in unrelated charges of questionable validity in Sweden. Sweden is being stupid. It would have done well to heed the reasoning if the prosecutor who initially dropped the case because it was weak. If Sweden now convicts him everybody will cry "fix!". If they exonerate him they will piss off the US. Sweden has neatly manoeuvred itself into a political tight spot.
     
  9. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Edit: reason for quotes is more what I was reading at the time that made me think of point rather than attacking what was said

    the more I read the stuff on wiki leakes the more I start to "dislike americans". Simply put I'm tired of all their looking down the nose bull on people from outside their own boarders. I'm not talking about foreigners living there but more how they feel the need to tell people what is democratic. the whole Iraq/Afgan war thing Im very strongly opposed to (despite having family members fighting in it) simply from a UK view point,

    a) it wasn't our war to fight in the first place
    b) there was no reason for the war, ie. Look for weapons of mass destruction yet conviently forget about the stock pile in your own back garden
    b) Look at NI "Terrorism". When will we be invaded? ooooo wait, you supported said terrorists in their bid for power.

    I'm sorry to say that with these leaks and american respose to everything I'm a sympathiser for the East but not a supporter. I'm totally opposed to violence (look what it accomplished over here) yet find it hard to care when any soldier dies on either side. even Sept 11 I look back on as the day when misguided religious idiots showed America they aren't gods. Yes 1000's of innocents lost their lives and the world is suffering for it, but Im not gonna mourn for people I don't know nor reacted just as violently. After all "An eye for an eye and the world goes blind" is very raw and true to me. Im just sad that violence is the only solution people can come up with, Just look at the students on the streets. Not supporting violence but understand why it happened. Governments should shoulder the blame for treating their people and other countries like ****.
    was it in V for vendetta that someone said "The government should fear the people?" After all, your entire life's work, what you aim for, what your remembered by is down to how you tread your subjects. Blair is the perfect example, I don't think anyone would pass him by without spitting in his face. the whole wiki leaks saga has just rammed that quote home.


    I find it comical about stating that people will die cause of wiki leaks. So does deploying your troops in someone else's territory and the Only person who is under the threat of death is whats his name that released the information.

    We're all gonna die sometime ironically its called life.
     
    Last edited: 11 Dec 2010
  10. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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    well its the old coming around again, anybody can claim anything, anyone can try and sue someone, anyone can start a claim or such etc etc. But we have yet to see the evidence to back up these claims.

    I just get so mad about this situation, wikileaks hasnt even finished leaking all the data, i have a feeling they will save the worst till last.
     
  11. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    don't think you guys are looking at it like he is.. I found it funny he said he has files on bp and bank of america- two very deep pockets

    who do you think is shoving money into his accounts.. just sayin
     
  12. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    I would caution you to be careful how you start framing the issue. You are right to find the leaked information damning of the US. However, you would be better served directing your anger to the US government that has routinely pissed all over not just world affairs, but also its own citizens. One of the reasons so many people over here are angry is because the Wikileaks information is actual proof of what many of us have long believed. The usual suspects are using their media outlets (despite their outspoken hatred for such media outlets) to make ridiculous claims against Wikileaks and Assange. But I can tell you from personal experience that there is a lot of support here for what Wikileaks has done, and continues to do.

    To start "disliking Americans" because of the actions of a group at the highest level is akin to disliking all Muslims because a few Saudi fundamentalists committed the attacks on September 11.
     
  13. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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    For those interested, I'm not 100% sure if this is gospel truth, but from what i'm hearing, microsoft is apparently releasing an update that flags the software used by Anonymous to DDoS these websites.

    Interesting revalations...

    Microsoft seems to have taken an interest to this if it is indeed true, why not ban all other DDoS programs, it's getting more outragous by the second, it really is. The government wants to shut Wikileaks up and anyone trying to stand up for what is right.

    I can see this getting VERY messy VERY soon, because that is possibly going to interest alot of people..
     
  14. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    From reading over it all, I don't see an issue per say, sure it's a lot of stuff that many nations (not just the US) would not like others to see, but as long as it puts no ones life at risk I really don't see much of an issue.

    Mind you the Vatican's comments when certain countries requested certain information is hysterical......
     
  15. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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    Read above good sir :p

    Microsoft has just changed the name of the game :)
     
  16. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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  17. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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  18. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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  19. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    Enable the English subtitles and laugh a little...
     
  20. hellblazer.doom

    hellblazer.doom New Member

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