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wikileaks' post of a video showing the murder of a journalist in iraq

Discussion in 'Serious' started by barndoor101, 5 Apr 2010.

  1. barndoor101

    barndoor101 Bring back the demote thread!

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  2. ch424

    ch424 Design Warrior

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    For people who don't want to watch the video:

    Edit: Huffington Post sums it up better.
     
    Last edited: 5 Apr 2010
  3. Lynx

    Lynx What's a Dremel?

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    Just watched it and I can only say that it is pretty bad, there is something very wrong if people who are helping wounded, without displaying any aggression or posing any threat are killed without warning.

    It is a loathsome act and one I hope that the members of the US Armed forces involved, not only in the shooting but also in the ensuing cover up have to take responsibility for their actions in court.
     
  4. pimonserry

    pimonserry sounds like a party.

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    Damn.

    You can understand, if they (in the helicopter) were really on edge, that they might mistake what the pedestrians are holding for weapons, but they seemed perfectly calm and co-ordinated before, so surely they would have taken a better look at what the pedestrians were holding?

    A real shame things like this happen.

    BTW, I suspect it'll be taken off YouTube in no time.
     
  5. Lynx

    Lynx What's a Dremel?

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    I agree, the initial engagement I could just understand as a consequence of the heat of battle but the second, no way.

    I cannot see any justification in an urban setting for the killing of wounded and those trying to help them. In fact I think that the action is in breach of the Geneva conventions, though in this case it is unfortunately irrelevant as the US has not signed up to those basic standards for combat.

    Wholly a despicable act.
     
  6. barndoor101

    barndoor101 Bring back the demote thread!

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    its saved to my HD so if it does get removed im sure an army of people will repost.
     
  7. kingred

    kingred Surfacing sucks!

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    This is one of those things.

    Which, a cover-up has ensued to avoid more hatred.
    Education in pure blinded common sense is the best idea.
     
  8. play_boy_2000

    play_boy_2000 It was funny when I was 12

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    I think just the opposite; there was no justification for the initial shooting, as the body language of the group didn't seem hostile and they didn't seem to react to the presence of the chopper.

    I do think the guy in the van was an idiot to get involved (espicially with 2 children). If the american military is shooting at someone, theres a reasonable chance they deserved to be shot at, so best give the scene a wide berth.

    I think both air crews deserve 5 years in the clink and if the person (presumeably a superior?) who was giving permission to engage had the same video feed as the gunner, he deserves 10+
     
  9. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    This story is breaking along with another report of US troops killing civilians in a botched raid.

    I have to wonder: Is this the "Winning hearts and minds" part, or is this "Shock and awe."

    No doubt the powers that be, along with too much of the population, will engage in a hefty amount of cognitive dissonance reduction to reconcile the acts. The interesting bit for me is in the second story:

    Many Conservative Christians like to toss out the old "Eye for an eye" justification when it conveniently suits their cause to start dropping bombs. As someone I know once said, "We got hit, and we got hit hard." (The sad part is that the person said that in response to the overthrow, capture, and execution of Saddam Hussein.)

    If Old Testament platitudes are justification enough to start killing people out of a base desire for retribution, does this mean that relatives of the dead women get to kill pregnant wives of certain members of our military?
     
  10. Burnout21

    Burnout21 Is the daddy!

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    I couldn't believe it last night when i watched it, The gunner doesn't have to think about flying, so he could watch them with out a problem, it was clear even in that video it wasn't AK-47's been carried.

    The pilots and gunners sounded young, and gun hoe. He just wanted an excuse to rip open the 30mm canon.

    Problem is, if the personnel have had friends killed in road side bombs and such, they then look for an excuse to get revenge.
     
  11. Dude111

    Dude111 An Awesome Dude

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    I saw this video earlier and i am truly disgusted living in this country! (This is no surprise however..This country is filled with idiots with attitudes who think they can BULLY THE WORLD!!)


    Look how they treat people in Iraq!


    This driving is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for.. SMASHING INTO PEOPLES CARS,ETC......

    http://files.ww.com/files/66513.html
     
  12. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    I disagree.

    I can understand the suspicion that a weapon was seen, but a) weapons are commonplace and not just in the hands of militants, b) sightings need to be confirmed (lest these men be innocent civilians - as they were), and c) there was absolutely no excuse for claiming that there was incoming fire.

    It was government-approved mass murder.

    What is more - there will be no come back against the pilots (officially at least) because they didn't break any rules. The rule book regards these events as unfortunate, but inevitable - and preferred to risking any US ground troops.
     
  13. brave758

    brave758 Minimodder

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    Ya that video is bad news. I could not see any grounds to engage the target. As for being on edge he was in a Apache lol trust me they are tough bits of kit. You don't worry about what you can see its what you can't see that's the problem. Yep they had guns and maybe a rpg but they weren't being pointed at the helicopters.

    Just wondering what the local rules of engagement are. I know the US ones are very different to the British ones?
     
  14. flame696

    flame696 Terminating People Since 1980....

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    They had children in the van imagine what they were going through while they were being fired upon for no reason what so ever! This is unacceptable i cannot understand why the helicopter had to engage?!! im so so angry right now at seeing that act of murder because thats what it is. its murder. I dont care what anybody has to say when children are involved i get angry (i have 2 kids of my own and i would protect them no matter what)

    this is disgusting!
     
  15. Ph4ZeD

    Ph4ZeD What's a Dremel?

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    Yes and to protect your children, you probably wouldn't load them up into a van and drive them into a warzone. Which was probably what the chopper gunner was thinking.
     
  16. flame696

    flame696 Terminating People Since 1980....

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    Its probably where they live its there home! where else should they go?? they were passing by and saw the guy crawling and stopped they might of been on the way to another place wouldnt you stop if a person was crawling on the floor wouldnt and bleeding??
     
  17. flame696

    flame696 Terminating People Since 1980....

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    The choppeer gunner has to be 100% certain they are armed before taking action, he wasnt sure it sounded like a boy with a new toy thats couldnt wait to try it out

    NO matter what you guys say you CANNOT justify this!
     
  18. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Just my couple of cents, none of us were there, few of us are in any armed service and even fewer have been deployed into a combat situation. We don't know what was going through their heads, or what kind of people they are. Maybe, in that situation and from the mentality of a person who has been sent off to live in a totally different world where there is a continuous threat of death or capture/torture and who has perhaps seen friends die or been in near-miss scenario's himself, this could seem like a real threat. Or maybe, looking at what percent of the population of the world ends up being murders and applying that percentage to the size of the US military, it will become statistically natural for some people to do some terrible things. Whatever the reason the actions are undoubtedly terrible and there is never any true justification for murder, but what I personally think is totally justifiable is the cover-up. A handful of people make some bad decisions and you try to be open about it and punish them, but all of a sudden a lot of people are ready criticize the US armed forces, or the US itself. There's just no way to really prevent accidents and outbursts like these, despite what people seem to think. There's a lot of misdirected anger and grief. Sometimes it's best not to just let the rabbit hole be.
     
  19. Dude111

    Dude111 An Awesome Dude

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    And the fact they tried to cover this up shows even more HOW WRONG THEY KNOW THEY WERE IN DOING THIS!
     
  20. brave758

    brave758 Minimodder

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    Well put. But that's what the rules of engagement are for to ensure that you stay within the law when you have to act and when you have to use force. You brake the rules you get punished. Weather or not this should have been leaked is something else.

    But as always leaked info is not the full info. we don't know what happened before and we are not in full possession of the facts.

    Having seen the mess a 30mm chain gun makes, I for one would never like to have it used on me in anger, or even used it on another human no matter how much he's pissed me off. But also knowing that also makes me think that someone has had a very bad day if they do use it.
     

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