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Windows Windows 7, SSD and what do I do with Page File?

Discussion in 'Software' started by foggy, 27 Nov 2011.

  1. AstralWanderer

    AstralWanderer What's a Dremel?

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    If that was the case, then XP (and Win2K) would need a pagefile sized greater than RAM (which they don't) and they'd be hitting the hard disk non-stop regardless of actual usage (which again, they don't).

    If you're basing your comments on Task Manager figures, be aware that it reports potential (rather than actual) usage since it includes page held in cache or shared with other processes, rather than being written to file. See Explanation of Pagefile Usage as reported in the Task Manager for more details. Even with that, the reported usage for an XP system will be far lower than a similarly set up Win7 system.
     
  2. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    i didnt mean it literally, but XP is extremely pagefile heavy.

    windows XP was really bad at repopulating the RAM with programs if they got bumped to the pagefile. this is one of the reasons restarting an XP machine made it feel so much faster (not so much with windows 7). its also one of the reasons your machine would inexplicably feel slower after sitting idle for a period of time (as background services take the idle CPU time to do their thing, they bump your programs to the pagefile).
     
  3. AstralWanderer

    AstralWanderer What's a Dremel?

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    YMMV, but I've never noticed this with 2K/XP - slowing down under heavy load yes, but not running slower after idle time. Other software could cause this though - in particular AV scanners deciding to recheck programs before allowing them to run. They would do a similar thing in Win7, but with a faster disk/CPU the overhead probably would not be as perceptible.
     
  4. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    I have had my page file turned off since I built my PC with 8Gb of RAM and an SSD. No problems at all.
     
  5. buchanan0204

    buchanan0204 What's a Dremel?

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    That's the silliest thing I've ever heard!

    Pagefiles are used when you run out of RAM. So using up RAM to create a RAM drive... so the pagefile can then be used is so stupid.

    It's like saying you need food (RAM) to operate and function. However, if you run out of food and need a backup you take some of the food you have anyway (The Pagefile) and freeze it.

    You have the same amount of food in the first place, only now you need to defrost your spares. When you could have just kept it where it was and used it without faffing.

    The whole point of a pagefile is something to fall back on when you run out of physical RAM. If you make a RAMdrive your using it up anyway.

    I wish I could find words to describe how idiotic this is.

    To answer the OP.

    Don't do anything with the pagefile, don't transfer it. Don't tinker.

    Just install Windows and enjoy.
     
  6. AstralWanderer

    AstralWanderer What's a Dremel?

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    You've led a very protected life then.
    Try doing more research into how a pagefile is actually used - it isn't as simple as your twee analogy tries to make out. The OP's intent is to reduce writes to SSD so having the pagefile on RAM (assuming, as stated above, that he has plenty) is a perfectly sensible way to achieve that.
     
  7. narwen

    narwen narwen

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    Astralwander is right windows still uses pagefile even if it has loads of ram left.
     
  8. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    if your going to do that why dont you just turn the pagefile off?
     
  9. AstralWanderer

    AstralWanderer What's a Dremel?

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    Because then Windows can't cope well with errant applications that request far more memory than they actually use. With a pagefile, the "requested-but-unused" memory can be allocated to it, leaving RAM free for other programs that actually use it.

    In fairness to application writers, it is better to request a large amount of memory at the outset rather than dribs and drabs during execution, since lots of small requests (and releases) can lead to memory fragmentation.
     
  10. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    how does placing the pagefile on a RAM disk solve the problem of windows running out of RAM? your still limited by the amount of physical memory in the system.

    if you have enough physical memory to not run out with the pagefile set to a RAM disk then you have enough to not run out with the pagefile turned off.
     
  11. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    The only reason of putting the swap file on RAM disk is when you got lots of it (16GB for example), but you have some stupid software which requires swap file to be turned on (older versions of Photoshop is a good example). Then you create a small (100MB) RAM disk, a 50MB swap file on it (or whatever is the minimum) and have fun at stupid application expense. No other reason to use swap file on RAM disk.
     
  12. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    theres an explanation that actually makes sense, thank you faugusztin.

    even so, ive had my pagefile turned off since 2008 (first on XP and now on windows 7). so far none of the programs ive run have required the pagefile to be turned on. obviously im not saying it wont happen, im just saying it must not be common practice these days.
     
  13. gammelhat

    gammelhat What's a Dremel?

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    If the debate is about how the page file works, he is actually right. If you move the page file from the ssd/hard drive to your ram, you are only hurting your performance.
     
  14. leeray

    leeray What's a Dremel?

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    Nothing needs to be disabled

    First and foremost Windows 7 will detect SSDs and disable Defragmentation. Defragmentation is completely unnecessary for SSDs.

    Secondly, you can run Page Filing, Write Catching and Super Fetch (even indexing but it's not necessary due to the speed of an SSD). The average life of an SSD for "US" home computer users is 1,500,000 hours (one million five hundred thousand hours). By the time you wear out your SSD it will be old and out-of-date. The newest technology for storage drives will either be faster SSDs or something we have never heard of yet.

    The fastest SSD I have used to-date is the OCz Vertex Plus.

    Build 9-26-11
    OCZ OCZSSD2-1VTXPL120G Vertex Plus 2.5" Solid State Drive - 120GB, SATA II
    Corsair Hydro H60 CPU Liquid Cooling
    Ultra X-Blaster ATX Black Mid-Tower Case with Clear Side
    Ultra ULT40135 Performance 120mm Case Fan
    Asus M4A88T-V EVO USB3 Motherboard
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 HDZ980FBGMBOX Black Edition Processor
    Transcend TX2000KLN-8GK aXeRam Overclocking Memory Kit 16GB
    Corsair CMPSU-650TXV2 Enthusiast Series
    PNY GeForce GTX 460 1GB GDDR5 PCI-e VCGGTX4601XPB
    Power Backup: APC Model # BX1500G

    So enjoy your SSDs and never look back! For my secondary internal HDD I use a Western Digital 650 GB with three partitions. They are still great for keeping your large files and system images in a safe place and to keep your SSD storage space for your system and programs. :thumb:
     
  15. SpAceman

    SpAceman What's a Dremel?

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    From my personal experience following the advice from Microsoft (that was posted by a few people earlier) having the pagefile enabled on your SSD is the better option. I have tried various ways about it including having the PF on a separate HDD and always found everything to be more responsive going the way MS suggested. Let Windows 7 do everything automagically on setup and you are good to go.
     
  16. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    just as a quick follow up....i still have my pagefile turned off and havnt run into any issues with it to day. going on 2 years or so on this installation of win7.
     
  17. davefelcher

    davefelcher What's a Dremel?

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    Best settings to prolong the life of an SSD

    Basic stuff:
    1. After installing Windows relocate the page file to a separate HDD.
    2. Turn off disk indexing.
    3. Turn off system restore.
    4. Under no circumstance use hibernate. Remove temptation by disabling the feature.
    5. Only ever install apps on a separate HDD (especially apps like Photoshop and games).

    Advanced stuff:
    1. Set OP to 80-90% of the drive's capacity.
    2. Disable TRIM

    Following the above steps should provide you with a warm, fuzzy feeling that you have protected your investment.
    Remember the goal here is to outlive you SSD, you didn't spend all that money on it to actually benefit from it.

    As others have said, just use your SSD, benefit from it as much as you can and after 1.5 million hours of use, buy a new one. You'll probably find you sleep better when you aren't worrying about the sort of crap mentioned above killing your SSD.
     
  18. 3lusive

    3lusive Minimodder

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    ^Those are archaic practices and only number 4 would I suggest doing. SSDs, modern ones, are much more robust than you believe. Furthermore, why the hell would you want to turn off TRIM?

    My advice to the OP is to ignore the above advice and just do the basics like running WEI, making sure you have the correct AHCI drivers, turn off defrag, change power options to never turn off HDDs, etc. I personally set my pagefile to 2GB minimum, but others recommend as low s 800MB, but it certinly doesn't need to be as big as your total ram (ie 16GB in my case).

    The pagefile should be kept on the SSD. This is Microsoft's advice, not just mine (as PD has linked to in the past, and TheKrumpet in this thread).

     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2012
  19. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Basic :
    1. Pointless, the only reason to do that is if you are very constrained on space (case of 40-64GB SSD). If you have enough RAM, it is better to limit the page file down to 1-4GB, fixed size.
    2. Pointless, the only reason for turning off indexing is because SSD is so quick. Why bother?
    3. The only reason is again to save space. No performance gains.
    4. Again, the only reason is again to save space - hibernation file will create a file at size of your RAM. Which can be sometimes very ugly, if you got 16GB RAM like me.
    5. Absolutely idiotic suggestion, you bought your SSD for your computer to be quick, not to keep SSD writes at minimum.

    Advanced:
    1. leaving free space is good idea, but only if you can.
    2. WHAT ? "Disable TRIM" is equal to a idea of "Turn your SATA drive to PIO mode".
     
  20. spolsh

    spolsh Multimodder

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    think you've missed davefelchers sarcasm ...

    (or i'm missing yours) LOL
     

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