1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

News Windows 8.1 could allow for Start Screen bypass

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 15 Apr 2013.

  1. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    28
    I suppose we'll have to wait and see regarding security. It's a little premature to say that the metro side of W8 will be a security problem. I suppose the push notification system stands out as a possible vulnerability, but it all depends how well MS have coded it. In my experience just about every version of windows has been more secure than the last (only stands to reason that it is), but nothing is 100%.

    Weren't people up in arms about MS forcing the ribbon interface on them in Office a few years ago? I think most have accepted that after a short learning period it's a better interface for office tasks (most of the time at least), and it also makes sense in the explorer (I still question it's usefulness in a more complex program like Autodesk AutoCAD though). Change it seems is just difficult for some to overcome.

    I do think your criticisms are valid to some degree. But the only thing MS is forcing upon you is the start screen, and as I've tried to point out above it's not really a huge amount different. This isn't a complete overhaul, the desktop experience is as it was (with a few improvements, and the start screen).That isn't exactly forcing a user to re-learn the way they use their pc.
     
  2. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,162
    Likes Received:
    141
    I think the problem with the ribbon was that people had spent some time familiarising themselves with the pre-ribbon positions of the tools they needed. The ribbon then laid waste to that knowledge which annoyed people. People vocalised this by saying the ribbon is rubbish. Whether it actually is or not is a different story.
     
  3. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2006
    Posts:
    3,099
    Likes Received:
    41
    Greetings!
    Its just different. Once we get used to it, its okish. I use daily pre-ribbon MSO, post-ribbon MSO and non-MSO suites. Still preferr non-ribbon ones, though.
    Funny thing is that fresh out of school interns dont know how to operate a non-ribbon Office suite. Its unbelievable the amount of power Microsoft has on the education system and public sector in general.
     
  4. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,262
    Likes Received:
    316
    I never understood why they decided to go with the ribbon myself, sure when you lots of commands to choose from with the old style it can look messy.

    But at least you can quickly and easily view all those commands, the ribbon is almost like going to restaurant and being presented with five separate menus, instead of having just one with all the food in it.
     
  5. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

    Joined:
    20 Jan 2007
    Posts:
    12,300
    Likes Received:
    709
    -> Easier to use
    -> Easier to find things
    -> A long list of features that reviewer marked as new in Office 2007, are old features in Office. This proved exactly what Microsoft was talking about, on how Office has a lot features that people just don't know about as they are buried between menus.
    -> I no longer have my mom bug me every 2min to put text in bold, or inserting a picture or something.

    No. Not at all.
    The old menu layout, is like going to the restaurant and you have all the dishes listed, in no order.. you have no idea if it's the main course meal or an entree/appetizer, all listed in a row.

    The Ribbon bar, is like a normal restaurant menu is. You have sections, you have spaces, and sometimes you have pictures.
     
  6. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,573
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    You mean, like you can set up in Windows 8? :p

    Metro Apps all run in full sandbox mode. If anything, they are much more secure than...

    ...the desktop programs that you can download and run under Windows' open and flexible architecture.

    So let me recap: your objection to Metro is that it may pose a security risk. Then you praise Windows' openness and flexibility, which is a huge security risk.

    Then you criticise Microsoft for "forcing" its vision of the future onto people, even though Windows is still so open and flexible that you can replace the Start Screen for a Start menu with a simple add-on, make Metro apps run in a window with a simple add-on, and pretty much alter/change/remove/add anything you always did in Windows 7 with a raft of different add-ons, without that ever being an issue to complain about?

    If anything, it is Apple which forces its vision of the future onto people. And the people are loving it. They are selling their vital organs in China for a taste of that future. People queue up at the shops for that future. Nobody seems to have a problem with that.
     
  7. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,262
    Likes Received:
    316
    I think this speaks more for how inept some reviewers and users can be, dont come around my house and beat me up :worried: that is not directed at your mom.

    But they are laid out in order, the same way they are on the ribbon. its just on the ribbon you have to click each sub menu just to see whats in it. instead of just having browsing multiple lists.
    To me the ribbon is like having a single menu to view and your not allowed to view the next on until you close the first.
    I guess its down to how you process information more than anything, i prefer long lists of information that i can view all at once. but im guessing normal users prefer shorter lists pictures and such, they do say people have shorter attention spans now days :hehe:

    No, I said PC's are know for there openness and flexibility, Since XP Microsoft have been trying to enforce stricter control over the the OS.
    I remember with 95/98 you could pretty much remove/delete anything you wanted, it is now harder than ever before to remove features you don't want or use.

    That just goes to show how crazy these people are if there willing to sell parts of there body, would you listen to someone like that :worried:
     
  8. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

    Joined:
    20 Jan 2007
    Posts:
    12,300
    Likes Received:
    709
    You should not play "Where is Wally/Waldo?", where you don't know what you are looking for (the name of the action).
     
  9. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    28
    Corky42, your restaurant menu comparison really doesn't work, because the ribbon is very similar to most menu's you get in restaurants. Replace the different tabs with different pages (as you get in most menu's, with the starters on one, mains on the next, deserts on an other page, and drinks towards the back. The only time it isn't is in places like Vasity's or Wearherspoon's when you're presented with a single large sheet as a menu.

    The benefit of the ribbon for office programs is because the vast majority of time, most people only use the basic text editing tools. You tend to set up your document with a specific font and size, a specific justification, and then you only make minor changes to this format as you go. Now and again you insert an image etc. and it's easier to have a tab for all insert options with hidden tabs that appear for image editing etc. than using the old fashioned menu. This is all my opinion obviously. Of course some are going to dislike the ribbon, but forcing it upon all was the correct decision by MS, because it means all Office products (since 2007) are alike.

    Where the ribbon interface falls down imo is in a program like AutoCAD where lots and lots of commands are required all the time. In the space of a minute you might select a polyline, draw something, then clip certain lines, rotate parts, re-scale something, offset a line or two etc. Having these commands on separate tabs imo means switching between tabs too often. Instead having the old style of having tolls placed all around the edges makes more sense. Keyboard shortcuts are the quickest way, but I struggle to learn them.
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,262
    Likes Received:
    316
    They are both menus so i stick by my comparison :p
    Like i said, i think its more to do with how you process information and i guess im just more a Vasity's or Wearherspoon's kinda guy :hehe:

    I cant remember but pre 2010 couldn't users customise the tool bar to add or remove there most commonly used commands ? i guess that was probably to complicated for the average user :duh:

    We do know his name its Waldo :rock:
     
    Last edited: 22 Apr 2013
  11. leslie

    leslie Just me!

    Joined:
    19 May 2009
    Posts:
    412
    Likes Received:
    11
    I don't like the fact that clicking on some teeny little corner causes my entire screen to be taken over, it's jarring. This is like having a pro wrestler screaming at you ever time you need to use something you don't have pinned to the desktop. As for Litestep and such, it's just another thing running in the background that can crash. Not to mention it costs money, even you have to admit, it's a little ridiculous that you would need/want to swap out the UI of the OS you just paid a bunch of money for.


    You can say we are all wrong and MS is right, but judging by the complaints, I would say you are in the minority. The fact that MS is making a major update so soon and sold it so cheap on the release also speaks volumes. Remember, some people actually liked ME and Vista too, history showed how those went over.

    You can actually tell pretty fast how MS and others feel about an OS. If they talk about the next release within a few days, it means they know they released a dud. They were talking about the next release before ME was even out. On Vistas release, within a day or two they were talking about Windows 7. When XP and Windows 7 came out, talk about the next release was minimal for weeks. When Windows 8 was released, that very same day they began discussing Windows 9.

    Most people have icons and shortcuts for the things they use most often, and only use the start menu for less commonly used things.

    And why not start in desktop mode when on a desktop?
    Who even thought Metro mode was a good idea on a desktop... Why does my radio stream and weather app need my entire screen?
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,573
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    It shows how much people feel bothered by a closed OS.

    No, that has always been the plan.
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,262
    Likes Received:
    316
    But we can ignore them as they are mental challenged, you know in the old days people like that would be locked up in a padded cell for there own protection.

    Either way apple has always been know for closed of systems in both hardware and software, where as PC's have always been known for there openness and flexibility, Well unless you go way back to IBM's first attempt that failed to sell.
     
  14. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

    Joined:
    20 Jan 2007
    Posts:
    12,300
    Likes Received:
    709
    Instead of putting these shortcuts on a desktop and making a mess (like most desktop I see from people), put it on the Start Screen, and this is what my friends and I do, and everything is clean and nice. Hence why they prefer it.
    Also, it's more powerful. You can pin any folders you want.. you are not restricted with the pre-made selection done for you, with no way to move them up or down. Here, you can do what you want.

    There is no need to go directly to the desktop.. Here you start your computer you see: 2 new emails, it's 22 degrees outside, and sunny, and you click on your program you want.
     
  15. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

    Joined:
    14 Sep 2010
    Posts:
    1,940
    Likes Received:
    66
    Wow did you hear that Nexxo, you must be in the minority?

    I think it's more clear that a few negative comments about Windows 8 in tech forum doesn't make it a complete failure either.

    I've not seen one thing that people have moaned about that hasn't been silenced by a simple click of a button or a swipe of a screen.

    Remember when your mum took your comfort blanket away because it was attracting flies and you cried all day, then before bed you got it back clean, fresh and warm and the world was right again? Windows 8!
     
  16. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,573
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    :p

    Lessee: Windows 8 licences sold: 60 million. Start Menu replacements downloaded: ten million. Looks like the majority likes Windows 8 just as it is.
     
  17. leslie

    leslie Just me!

    Joined:
    19 May 2009
    Posts:
    412
    Likes Received:
    11
    It's a desktop, not a tablet. It should boot to a desktop OS, not a tablet interface. I have ZERO need for a tablet interface on my desktop.



    Correlation does not imply causation
     
  18. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12 Aug 2003
    Posts:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    56
    So the start screen (which is just a screen with icons on it which you can click) is a tablet interface? Does that mean if I have icons on my desktop it's a tablet interface?
     
  19. Pliqu3011

    Pliqu3011 all flowers in time bend towards the sun

    Joined:
    8 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    2,720
    Likes Received:
    253
    It seems a lot of other people are perfectly fine with that “tablet interface” though. Besides, your “desktop interface” is just one simple click away. I still don't see what the big deal is.
    (and that's from someone who doesn't even like Windows 8 that much and prefers 7…)
     
  20. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,573
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    What makes the Start Screen a tablet interface, and not a desktop one?

    Only when the numbers do not correlate with your assumptions. :p
     

Share This Page