Motors Would you buy a car from a company in bankruptcy

So we (some of us) live in the US. Title says it all I guess. Chrysler in bankruptcy , GM within 4 days. Leaves on Ford.

Thoughts

GM is NOT just US. what about foreign markets?
I was a mechanic for GM from 1970- 1973. Was a good company before mass imports.

Lots of stupid mistakes.

john

 

My two brand-new GM cars definitely had flaws. When I was younger, it seemed like a good idea to "buy American." One had faulty paint and the other had electrical problems. I guess being burned twice puts me off buying from GM unless I were to see real improvements as compared to other manufacturers in both overall quality and resale value. My experiences with Toyota and BMW after the Chevys were very good in comparison.

As for right now, I'm driving a Mini Cooper and quite happy. Of course I'm not really in the market for another vehicle, so my opinion probably doesn't count for much at the moment. ;P

 

Short answer, No. Reasons being just the fact of the quality of the cars themselves. No doubt there are genuinely good American cars, of the past... I had a Buick that had a rock solid engine, even though the body was falling off around it. After owning an import (Honda) I dont think I'll ever own an American car again (Honda of America I know, but Japanese engineering is clearly superior! )

 

My first car was a toyota, then a mazda, and now another mazda. I know that there are some ford parts in my car, but everything made by mazda is rock solid.
I would never buy an american made car. The guys I work with all have american trucks and they are always breaking down. Except for one guy who has an import. And I dont think he has ever complained about it.

 

The issue isn't that they've gone/are going bankrupt, really. That won't change much about your ownership if you bought a secondhand car made by them; the parts and support base will still exist, they're common cars, and prices can only fall so far. (That's traditionally not the case, I know people that own TVRs and one poor sucker with an MG SV, and they're screwed for parts, screwed for service, screwed for warranty - the lot.) If you bought firsthand, you're likely going to lose your warranty, though you could probably negotiate a good deal in compensation. Bankruptcy could put you off, but it wouldn't be fatal.

If bankruptcy wouldn't certainly put you off, what would? I'd buy pretty much any Ford Europe car - Mondeo, Focus, Fiesta - you name it, and some of GM's world market stuff - the VX220, for example - was brilliant. (Chrysler - less so.) The problem is what caused them to go bankrupt was making cars that no-one in America wanted to buy. It's the same with Rover - undesirable cars, undesirable lack of sales.

So no, I wouldn't buy most American-market cars as a daily driver even if they were in good financial health; it's not the company, it's the product.

 

My father worked for GM way way back. Some of the stories he's told me... My advice would be no personally, but for other reasons than them going bankrupt.

My first car was a Ford Focus, and it was mostly fine until I got a tankful of dirty petrol and wrecked the fuel pump and fuel lines. I say mostly because there was an intermittent electrical fault where the car would just die if you touched the brakes. Neither Dad or myself, or our local Ford dealership could get to the bottom of it, and shortly after I had sorted the problems that the bad fuel caused, I sold it.

Dad is driving his second Mondeo now, he switched an old model (2003) Zetec for a new Titanium, and it's an excellent car. My everyday car at the moment is a 2007 Clio Sport, which is starting to show those classic french car traits (intermittent faults with electrics, warning lights when nothing is wrong etc). It's been mostly reliable apart from needing a new ABS control unit about 9 months after I bought it. Thankfully that was covered in the warranty and the local Renault dealership did it quite quickly for me.

I think my next car will be Japanese, unless I accidentally on purpose walk into a VW showroom and buy a black Scirocco Sport in the next 6 months Test drove one the other day...

 

Did people stop flying in the airlines when they entered bankruptcy? No. Did the airlines re-emerge and continue to function? Yes. Same thing here. GM will enter an accelerated Chapter 11, with government backing. This will allow them to restructure their debt and return to profitability after which they will return the money to the treasury and be on their merry way.

If you like GM's 2009/2010 line up from Opel/Saab/Vauxhall/Holden/Chevroltte/Corvette/Cadilac/Hummer (until sold)/(and in certain markets)Isuzu then you will buy them. If you are still think they are the same cars from the 1980's and unable to change your world outlook, then you wont. I think most people's opinions are heavily biased based on FUD and anti american sentiment rather then fact. Especially once you start looking at the number technical fault briefs issued and consumer recalls over the last 3-4 years. The fact is GM's cars are rather low on the list, behind most Asian and European manufactures (global numbers). The global design centers are putting out great designs and manufacturing standards are as high as anyone else.

There are a lot of opinions out there, and few are based on fact. GM gets to be the AIG because people need to vent. No one wants to face the fact that GM has had the cars that everyone is crying about, but no one bought one. No one wants to admit that GM has even better cars in pipeline, cars that started development 4 years ago; and that the market crashed just one year before they are to launch. And certainly no one is willing to admit that GM has sunk more money and time into real alt platforms and technologies that work, rather then stick a hybrid engine into an SUV and ******** people into thinking they are getting better mileage (They have the only 500hp engine on the market that beats the US' gas guzzler tax. 500hp and is more fuel efficient them most light trucks). There are plenty of other areas where GM has made large progressive moves years ago that no one wants to acknowledge.

Buy it or don't. I know that the minute they emerge from Chapter 11, I'm sinking a couple of grand into their stock.

 

biggest problem was the shocking build quality of American cars, they either fall to bits or have that classic cheap feel like a bad Chinese toy.

I am pretty sure the design is ok, but accountants have got in the way and made bad decisions in cutting costs. The accountants probably never see the final product which they have affected as they drive an imports from Asia and Europe.

Don't get me wrong I have seen some well built American cars, a friend has an imported 1986 chevy caprice police edition, LA style and its built like a tank, its life started in the LA police force, then a taxi only to be imported to an American air base over here to be reverted to its police colours, and then sold to my friend. We had a look and it had been around the clock a few times, the engine has been rebuilt last summer, but that because of a stupid mechanic.

Basically the clutch on the fan gave up the fight, so was replace only to have the mechanic install the steel fan backwards so when the engine started and he forced it to overheat to see if the fan kicked in, bearing in mind he had the throttle open 3/4 the way, the clutch engaged throwing and fan around at some pace into all the pulleys and belts, made a right mess which required removing the engine completely to see all the damage. If memory services me right the water pump was ripped from its mount spun around the bay and from the looks of it was used as a medevil mace. £50 repair turned into a £900 rebuild.

 

Yes, there is that. But on the other hand, pretty much the absolute worst that could happen to you on a plane after 911 was being hijacked and then brutally murdered by terrorists. Nasty, sure. But nothing on this time, where you might end up in a Chrysler Sebring coupe which, no matter how you spin it, is still a pathetic 152bhp from 2.4 litres of petrol V6 - 63.3bhp/l. My Mini - no turbo, no trickery, FWD grocery-getter weighing almost a third of a ton less - achieves 15bhp/l more and, unsurprisingly, 20mpg better on the combined cycle. Incidentally - my engine was built by BMW aaaaaand... Chrysler! Whereas the Chrysler's was built by Mitsubishi.

Having established that American car makers make at least one sucky, sucky car, let's take a giant leap of faith and say that by and large in the US American carmakers are perceived as cheaply priced and cheaply made and many people buy import or import-branded because they think the image and the workmanship is better. Stop me if you think that's wrong and people buy American because of the quality and cachet. Chrysler evidently agree, incidentally, seeing as the Crossfire is actually the old SL and the 300C is the old old E-Class.

No, you face the facts. If GM North America were making cars American people wanted to buy, they wouldn't have this sort of stuff happening to them. And if the market's crashed 'a year before they were ready' that's called 'failing to prepare' and 'gambling with your employees' livelihoods'. Yeah, times are hard. Times are hard everywhere. But I note that all the Europeans with the exception of the American-owned are struggling through, even if it means firing people rather than taking Government money.

American car makers are between a rock and a hard place. They can't make good cars because American people don't want good cars, they want cheap cars. Let's do some maths. I was going to compare a UK Ford Fiesta, which starts from £10k and would therefore be US$16,000, which incidentally is what Ford say it'll cost when it makes it over, to their current American hatch. I can't find a Ford compact hatch equivalent in the US because guess what, Ford don't make one. Their smallest car is the Focus, which is the old Focus everywhere except the US switched from in mid-2005. Four and a half years ago. I cannot for the life of me find America's bestselling compact car for 2008, but bestselling car for 2009? It's the F-150. It starts at just $21,000 and it's exactly what I'm trying to point out.

Your global design bureaus kick so much ass; Ford's Europe division, I think I'm right in saying, is the best in the world for fast, affordable cars. Nobody does it better. The problem's not only the Big 3, it's America. America doesn't make good domestic cars because Americans won't pay for good domestic cars.

And good luck to you. It's good to see someone put their money where their mouth is. If I was picking Big 3, I'd buy Ford, I have high hopes for those guys and the global-car program.

 

I was lucky enough to take a demo car out today, an 09 Mazda 6 Sport. It suffered noticeable turbo lag and the door trim flexed worse than the trim on my Laguna. Went like hot poo off an oiled shovel if poked hard enough but I wouldn't have one, imo 60mph felt like I was dawdling along.

 

IIRC at least here state side, none of the 09 mazda 6's are offered with a turbo ( seeing as they cut the mazdaspeed 6 model when they changed the body )

Bankruptcy is not going to change anything with these cars, it will affect newer models though as the government has more of a say in what kinds of cars get built. That is going to suck.

As for quality, my parents and I all drive Fords, and the only problems we've ever had with them involved me hitting trash cans or other cars... Whereas my sisters newer ( '05 ) Accord is having issues to know end and my brothers civic decided to throw a transmission after 2 years of ownership
Qulaity's hit and miss with any company.

 

GM got into this mess by continuing to build un-marketable cars. They go into bankruptcy. They come back out building the same stuff?

john

 

If they can get that Chevy Volt out fairly soon for reasonable pricing it'd be great.

If they actually file for bankruptcy I think it wont be too long before they turn it around and start making profits like you say.

As for the quality of cars, you get lemons from every car company. It's just that people love to bash American made cars.

GM got into this situation because of the morons in charge cutting down on quality of cars to reduce prices which then made people hate them and never forgive. Now they are making much better quality cars but people will never forgive and they will never support their country but instead support Japan and hurt America. The unions as well really hurt the big 3. When the union demands wages increase and more health benefits or else they go on strike, the car companies have no choice but to say yes. Currently they pay a couple Billion a year just on health coverage to retired workers. That sure don't help.

 

Yes I would, especially from the dealerships being cut

They said you could get a truck that normally retailed for $43,000 for $28,000 after rebates and cash back from one of those dealerships going out of business. And you still get service/oil changes just not from that dealer

 

[QUOTE=PureSilver%3

 

I suspect part of the problem is something we've discussed in other threads: that being the US market doesn't get some of the nicely done models EU and elsewhere get. I'm no expert to suggest why that may be, i.e. EPA emissions and safety equipment here, union costs, stupid bean-counter/market decisions or whatever. The US automakers do have some decent models recently come to market or in the works. Whatever happens, I am hoping they make it through these times and are able to make a profit.

Chances are, I won't be in the market for another vehicle for quite some time. However, I would be open to seeing what the "Big Three" have on offer when I am.

 

Politics and safety have a lot to do with it. Or should I say, the politics of safety. I can think of a few models that can't be sold in the US due to differing safety standards, mainly due to the cost of redesign being prohibitively expensive along side having to manufacture and support 2 different specs. Often the way to lowering mileage involves making the car lighter and removing things that aren't needed anywhere but the US market. To import them would negate the very reason for importing them. Not to mention the US's aversion to diesel.

 

British Leyland/Rover anyone?

 

Hardly a comparison. Rover and Leyland weren't global. GM's operations outside the US are by and large profitable and debt free. Which is why they want to spin them off.

 

Being based in Europe I'm used to real cars. BMW and Mercedes to be exact. Comparing the tripe that is called a "car" from US companies to what we get here....

Well I would buy one thing from Ford's US collection. GT500KR. I just love the look of it.