Xbox 360 Xbox360 Don't Believe The Hype

The title of the post is a bit misleading I suppose. Gameplay was great on the three demo units I've tried, and the graphics were similarly impressive, however, read on.

I suppose my being on the list for a later shipment has turned out to be a blessing in disguise.

Serving only to exacerbate Microsoft's reputation for unreliability, reports are popping up left and right that the Xbox360 is unstable and buggy. Crashes seem random with BSODs (Black Screen of Death in the 360's case) occurring anywhere from mid-boot even before the Microsoft splash comes up, to mid-game. The crashes also appear to be rather frequent and not restricted to a few units or any specific games. A thread over at teamxbox is growing quickly as early recipients of the console post about their own individual problems.

What is particularly curious is that there was no word (to my knowledge) of these BSODs in any of the reviews prior to the console's launch. If these problems continue Microsoft may have shot itself in the foot by restricting initial sales and "simultaneously" launching the console in foreign markets. Unless Microsoft springs into action and fixes the problem, they may stand to lose much of the hype they generated through the shortage they allegedly orchestrated. It will be interesting to see if the source is software or hardware related. Some owners are reporting that the console runs surprisingly hot. If the former, it should give users a taste of what Microsoft can do on their end with regards to updating or perhaps controlling the consoles via the broadband internet connection, thus giving modders an idea of how much control MS has hidden away for itself if the need should arise. If the issue turns out to be hardware related, then things may get really interesting. In either case, I don't plan on picking up my preordered unit any time soon. Let's hope MS sorts things out before people start lining up outside brick and mortars for the PS3 launch.

 

I think that fanboys have likely blown this issue out of proportion; the problems are probably people who are running them in unventilated cupboards or something. I'm not the biggest Xbox fan, but I doubt Microsoft are stupid enough to release a console with so many issues, even if they did want to get it out quickly.

I'll be interested to see how this one plays out...

 

i have to agree with the guy above me. for one you cant take the demos as anything but just that, demos. i have the finished copy of CoD2 and it is far more polished then the demoes out. with ANY console launch you will come across a number of faulty systems. microsoft may have worked hard to be #1 out the door in the next gen race but that doesnt mean that they cut corners to do it. im sure many people who are experiencing heat issues and such have the console in an enclosed area that isnt well ventalated. worse yet is that a lot of people write in complaints as if they dont know that the power supply also has fans in it and needs to be well ventalated as well. i have played my console for over 7 hours straight and never had a problem. the system got a little warm but only near the back where the dual fans exhaust all the heat and the console never got any warmer then any previous console i have owned. for anyone who has a faulty console i would just call microsoft register my 360 and send it in to get fixed for free, either wait for that or sell a busted 360 and hope to buy another one before the end of the year.

 

AS Xenos said, the guys over at PA have been debating this too and the ones with the console aren't sure about the complaints related to heat either. Seems the general opinion is that it doesn't get any hotter than any other console, but that the power brick might be prone to overheating if it's not properly ventilated. A few have said that after 15 or so straight hours of gaming, that they've seen no problems or similar overheating issues (not to say it doesn't exist on some units).

I'm hoping this is all a storm in a teacup, and not a repeat of the scares associated with the PS2...

 

It's worrysome, and of course there are bound to be some defects, but the 15% I've read just seems unreasonable, PEBXAC if you will (problem exists between xbox and couch, in this case, rather than keyboard/chair) must be coming into play, what with bad ventilation. Having said that, it also seems unlikely that MS would honestly believe people read ventilation warnings and don't just stick it on carpet clogging things up. I've seen TVs SEALED in cabinets and vent holes of all sorts wedged right up against a board or something. Them thinking everyone heeds the warnings would be like MS saying, and honestly believing, that Windows is a secure OS... (let's not get started on that, because in all fairness it IS the target of almost everything just because of market share).

Even 5% would seem unrealistically high if you ask me. The marketing disaster that would ensue if there was a recall or something would give all the Sony fans a rise.

I can just imagine how MS must have an automated thing on their tech line already saying "give it some air, foo'!" before it lets you talk to a person.

 

Maybe this is the reason why Microsoft were unable to give any figures to stores on how many units would be available on the opening day - they simply didnt know themselves as there were so many products coming of the production line faulty?

Is it just me or do so many things get released these days with problems... looking back over recent releases we have the incredibly easy to scratch ipod nano and the Sony PSPs with 4+ dead pixels being common place! C'mon guys, if you're gonna do something, at least try and do it properly!!!

 

Yeah it is turning into a trend but this issue doesnt soudn that bad after looking over some forums..its all due to consumer demand whenever these problems come around, most (not me ) just want to get there hands ont he product as soon as they can and then complaina bout the fault afterwards.

Ice

 

The demos don't have anything to do with the crashes. I only mentioned them because I had played them and they worked flawlessly for me. I have yet to see a Kiosk demo unit BSOD. All of the reported issues are with retail units.

As for overheating, that doesn't actually seem to be the issue. Lots of people have tried moving the units (PSU and CPU) around for more ventilation and the problems have persisted. The issue appears, at least at the moment, to be in the software. I simply threw hardware failure out there as a possibility.

I've played consoles for hours and hours as well and I have yet to have a problem either and with something this powerful, placing it in an unventilated area, or near a heater or something of the sort, could definitely cause problems. However, as I said before, some people are getting BSODs before the splash screen even loads. That's hardly enough time for the system to heat up and crash.

Maybe Microsoft isn't, maybe they are, but perhaps something went awry on the developers' side. There was evidently some rushing taking place on their part. One such case was PGR3. The game went to final press before recieving Microsoft's "mandatory" certification. This was done so the game would be ready for launch. Supposedly had the game failed the certification tests, MS would have told them to scrap what they had produced and repress them when they recieved certification. Luckily PGR3 passed at the last minute and PGR3 was a go for launch. But regardless of whether it passed or not, this shows that there was definitely some rushing to get this thing out the door, and perhaps some things were overlooked.

At the same time, who knows, maybe one of the plants manufacturing the units got a bad batch of CPUs or memory or someone forgot to apply thermal paste when putting on the heatsinks. Maybe it's just a fluke and won't happen again. Either way, it isnt' good news and it seems like it's happend to more than a couple people. I'm just interested to find out what the deal is and what MS plans to do to fix it if the issue is serious enough.

 

Actually now that i remember the system crashed in my local GAME store..the employees faces..

Ice

 

This is sort of what I've been getting. It would be a disaster indeed if the defects are as prevalent as these reports and forums would indicate, but I guess maybe the hype is on the end of the users who are having the issues and exaggerating them.

 

Nah, that was in fact PD:Z that bypassed the certification process. Was reported widely a few days before the launch.

 

This is just fanboy fuel. I wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't sound that widespread and it's certainly doesn't seem like an epidemic.

Having used windows for years and "had dealings" with an Xbox tells me that if anyone can roll out software (and probably firmware) updates then it's MS. Hopefully they will show form and sort out as much as they can that way. Oh, and don't dry your socks on the power brick

Anyone who buys a console at launch must know that they are basically taking part in the first real public test. It is easy to expect too much from a new product that has had this much hype and is, let's face it, very desirable. If something is designed to be accessible by everyone then the best way to test it is to put it in the hands of "everyone" and see how they get on.

MS did a great job with the Xbox so I'm sure that now they have the experience, that the 360 will be a pretty solid machine.

 

Yep. Even if the thing did have widespread glitches, based on my Xbox 1 experiences and the way Live works, I'd be pretty confident in Microsoft getting these issues sorted out quite quickly (assuming there's no fatal hardware problem of course).

 

I hope these problems are just a very small figure, it always happens all the praise people give doesnt get heard, no matter hown many people say good things, but when 1 person says a bad thing everyone hears it.

just to make a point the the BSOD's are happening BEFORE the MS Splash screen........ how many times have you played on your console for a couple of hours (enough time for it to get hot) and then decided to change games, then the console would already be hot, when you started the new game and before the splash screen.

the problem with this sort of this you will never know the true reason why the consoles have crashed,

were they trying to play a XBOX game that wasnt compatible??

Was the disc Scratched??

How hot was the room when they played the game??

has the unit been dropped??

was the unit moved, kicked, game ejected whilst playing with the machine??

Have they put it infront of a Large speaker??

for the magazienes not to have these problems or report them makes me suspisious. they would be the first people to shout about it, but they do respect the items unlike alot of the public who abuse and lie to make it out to be a MS problem, and not the fact they they accidently spilt beer over it when they was drunk.

 

I personally would have a hard time believing problems with any number of units that ammount to even as much as 1% of the ones sold. They do tend to all individually be put through a degree of electronics testing before being shipped out. I doubt that it even has too much to do with the heat, though that may be the case in consoles that locked up after a few hours of play; newer machines ARE definitely getting pretty hot, so these people should definitley be letting some airflow get to their new 'box.

There's a chance that the real problems that are reported might be software, or firmware; if the shipping and packaging, or storage conditions were not quite ideal, it may be that the data stored on the hard drive, or even in the BIOS's CMOS storage, could've been "damaged"; this could very well yield improper function; in this case, a simple re-fresh of the core files there would solve the problem.

In the case of it being hardware, I would doubt that it could possibly be from the critical components themselves. Rather, I would suspect the connections between parts; namely, perhaps DVD lens that was dirtied before use in the factory, or perhaps a damaged contact on the hard drive connector.

Well, the fanboys can only interpret and spin the actual data; any fanboys against the Xbox 360 obviously wouldn't have bought the console, hence there would be no reports coming from them. However, it is true that Microsoft wouldn't release a console like that; they've had units running in demo kiosks for a few months without problems, and have likely performed highly extensive testing on the units, so I suspect that the problem would arise elsewhere, either user-based or something else.

 

okay since everyone is talking about problems on the 360, I will post some postive's. I have played my 360 for over 60 hours since launch. I went through the batteries that came with the controller in 1 night! I have never had a lockup while playing or any kind of system issue. The software does feel rushed, but that's just like every single console launch, and I've owned everyone since the orginal nintendo.

the only thing that happened to me was the wireless transponder in the controller failed on me. I promptly returned to the store and exchanged it for a new one. In manufacturering defects are going to happen. 3% or less is an excellent failure rate in consumer electronics. According to sources like Gartner here in the states consumer laptops fail 25 - 35% of the time, yet you dont' here people complain about manufacturers purposfully ripping people off.

The problem with internet forums is that you don't know how many people are truly telling the truth. The other problem with posts like team xbox is it's a gathering place for all people having problems so the problems look widespread and terrible, when those 40 or so people only represent a small fraction of the population!

 

3% is 1 in 33. If it really was that bad there'd be absolute uproar. It's probably nearer 0.3%; 3% chance of death in its first week of life would be disasterous. It's hard to believe that Microsoft have really put that figure on it.

For comparison, around 1/500 laptops are doa (in my experiance).

 

Actually 3% is the normal rate of defective electronics. ~cough~ Shows how much you know about death rates.

 

I should have elaborated, 3% FOA-rate isn't normal at all for something like a PC. 3%-8% chance of it dying/duffing somewhere in a reasonable period of use (6-24months, say) would be normal. See the diff?

Example; a few months ago I did a little project involving around 350 pcs, 17" tfts, and maybe 100 laptops. A few of them have probably died by now sure, but upon initial build/deployment we had just 1 faulty tft out of the whole kit - you have to bear in mind this kit had been shipped all over the uk in small batches by courier too.

How much do I know? My recent knowledge comes only from deploying & supporting ~5-6,000 pcs/lts/printers/etc over the past year or 2 for various companies.

I also have hazy memories of processing/testing hundreds of shiny new hdds, floppies, opt. drives a day for 6 months or so, but I don't like to think about it because it paid like macdonalds


Incidently, chances of dying scale up as parts start to wear out. If it's 3% after two weeks what would be its chances after the dust has begun to really clog it up?

 

In all reality, having a system fail on a carpet is as much of a design flaw and it is a consumer flaw. MS should have known people were too ignorant to read the warning labels and that thousands of their systems would end on on carpets. In response to this they should have designed a more sophisticated cooling solution, as this has been a problem with every major console in the last several years.

I know it's not technically their problem if someone screws up their console because they didn't read the labels, but it would be worth it to avoid all the bad press. Besides that, I have read that even in ideal cooling situations the 360 still gets insanely hot, and is insanely loud at the same time. Knowing their system was already a very warm one, they should have foreseen this problem. Chances are they already thought about everything I just said (they do have people they pay to think about that stuff) and decided it wasn't worth the production costs and or delays.

That being said, for every 1 report of a faulty 360 there are 1000 reports of perfectly functional ones.

If the number really is 15% defective, then MS has a HUGE problem in their production lines, but nothing I am sure they aren't willing or financially able to fix.

Irony: That J Allard guy (I think thats his name) bashing Sony for not having any visible cooling slots on PS3 and talking about how a proper computer needs to have decent cooling or it won't work! (air circulation holes are visible on the sides of the PS3 console -which isn't even a production model-)

Can't wait to see some good cooling mods for the Xbox360.