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Gaming Your Favourite Game Was Rubbish

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Sifter3000, 18 Feb 2010.

  1. VaLkyR-Assassin

    VaLkyR-Assassin New Member

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    I'm already about 2/3 through DX after a first playthrough since 2007, started it a couple of weeks ago.

    Why am I not playing IW instead? Because it crashed within about 5 minutes of starting a game last time I tried to replay it. DX is buggy, but IW is even worse!

    A couple of reasons why DX is considered a better deal than IW is due to the length of the game (DX is much longer and it isn't all filler) and also the fact the IW had become consolised with some very small areas, which became annoying to travel through as you only had to walk a small distance and then another very long loading screen would load up. Most people complain about other things like interface issues, and poor performance when it was released, but it is mainly the lack of depth that is really why IW is considered weaker by DX fans. For example, in DX there were absolutely loads of datacubes and news kiosks to read stuff, and if you kept prompting a character, you'd get alot more response with continuing information. IN DX datacubes were pretty rare, so alot of tiny details that made DX fun to explore just simply went. The second game as I mentioned before also suffers from being much shorter than the original, and offers a lot less value for money due to this - it's easily 2 - 3 times longer if played correctly. I did like IW when it came out, and at the time I actually thought it was pretty decent, but looking back now, i just feels so hollow and empty compared to the original, as though it was rushed and there isn't any soul to the game.


    Anyway, a quick thing about Doom 3 and Halflife 2 - Doom3 is worse simply because it is one of the most boring, repetitive, and thoroughly annoying games I have ever played and to this day, even though I played for quite a while, I never finished it. Just too damn dull. It was the same thing all the time, lights go out, monsters appear, you kill them, then move on. It is repeated pretty much the whole game, and makes it completely enjoyable. HL2 has very fun gameplay, with alot of different environments, and feels action packed all the way. Doom3 can have all the audio logs in the world, but it will never make it an exciting game to play.
     
    Last edited: 18 Feb 2010
  2. Helenius

    Helenius New Member

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  3. bobwya

    bobwya Custom PC Migrant

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    I am playing through "Deus Ex: Invisible War" now - as it had a rather inefficient engine - too much for my CPU and GPU at the time of release. (Same could be said of Doom 3!!) I do like both games and I am really looking forward to Deus Ex 3.

    I would love to see a mod of the first version of Deus Ex (on the Orange Box Source or Unreal 3 engines say) to sort out the graphics. The Unreal engine does look quite tired these days... Also I don't agree with the "invincible characters approach" - that breaks immersion... You should be able to kill key characters with a rocket launcher...!! In other respects the game is ground breaking and huge. Really a case of game play first, graphics second which is the opposite (it would appear) of modern development.

    With Invisible War it's easy to criticise the obvious things (smaller game, smaller levels, no skill points/visible skill upgrade, universal ammo, inventory system that doesn't allow for weapon mass/size, lack of body region specific damage - i.e. a leg hit means you only walk, etc.) However one of the most annoying things for me is that the characters will "talk to me" then walk of and walk into a wall or just walk on the spot doing nothing... That's the sort of thing that the older Deus Ex did a little better... One can't help but feel the sequel was rushed with a simpler plot and characters (including NPC AI). The graphics and gameplay in Deus Ex: Invisible War are OK (especially now that I can max out the anti-aliasing and get a smooth 60 FPS).

    I should also say that I love both Doom 3 and HL2 equally. I liked the immersive interactivity in the Doom 3 world and the almost Sci-Fi cinematic look that they managed to pull off. HL2 has a much better story, and a better engine. But does also suffer from having very linear gameplay. I really couldn't cope with the graphics of Half-Life 1 - so I am eagerly waiting for Black Mesa Source...
     
  4. pimonserry

    pimonserry sounds like a party.

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    Really interesting article.

    I'm not going to bother posting something huge like everyone else, I'll just say I had dismissed IW before as everyone says it's got nothing on Deus Ex, but I'll reconsider, and pick it up sometime soon. :)
     
  5. stoff3r

    stoff3r New Member

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    Nice article :) I have long had the same opinion, especially as I did some gaming on a NES-console (not a real one, just some rubbish bought at the local Kwik-E-Mart for £20. It did however have the same games I used to have, and love, when I was a Kid. Games like Excite bike, mario, an old tank game, 1942 etc. These games are said to have all focus on gameplay. But sadly they fall short, their gameplay is fun for 2 minutes, then you realize there isn't anything else there. Just same ol, Same ol..
     
  6. _Metal_Guitar_

    _Metal_Guitar_ New Member

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    I can't believe people are taking this article so literally. Joe isn't saying old games are rubbish, as far as I can see, he's not given an unfair review of any game mentioned here. It's merely that we shouldn't all ways be comparing new titles against games which are all ready very fond in our minds. We should cherish these nostalgic memories, they deserve it. But some new titles deserve it as well, and its important to maintain an openness to them. Or all you'll have is old memories.
     
  7. TurtlePerson2

    TurtlePerson2 New Member

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    I like the thesis of your argument, but I don't agree with a few of the examples. The one that really gets me is the Half-Life 2 / Doom 3 argument.

    Saying that a game's story is better because it's easier to follow isn't a fair criticism. Memento was a difficult film to follow, but everyone who sees it seems to like it.

    I agree that nostalgia clouds our judgment and makes us defend games that might not otherwise warrant our defense, but I think you reached too far with the Half-Life 2 example.
     
  8. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    The one game that nostalgia has possibly effected quite badly. The Total War games, I love them, but to this day, they are still bug-ridden..

    Albeit very fun bug ridden and memorable games.
     
  9. Aragon Speed

    Aragon Speed Busily modding X3: Terran Conflict

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    "They are fantastic games – but fifteen years on, I question whether we really still need to be reminded about how scary SHODAN is. When is enough going to be enough and when can I open a copy of my favourite PC gaming magazine without seeing a retrospective feature on Deus Ex or PlaneScape: Torment? When will everyone start to realise that just because a game is their favourite doesn’t mean that it’s the best?"


    I tell you what, we will stop talking about how good some games are/were just as soon as people stop bringing up "Casablanca" and "The sound of music." as classic films. Or perhaps when certain religious types stop forcing something that may or may not have happened over TWO THOUSAND years ago down our throats. ;)
     
  10. buggerlugz

    buggerlugz New Member

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    The death of OpenGL and the unification of the directx platform killed the games industry for me. I very much doubt i'll ever be as inspired as the day i went out and bought my voodoo2 and a copy of Unreal ever again. Quite simply because there is such a lack of innovation in the games market today.
     
  11. Orothe

    Orothe New Member

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    +1 really. Except I did read ALL the comments, like I usually do. =P

    I have to admit that I'm a victim too. Perfect Dark. I LOVED that game. Soo many guns, each with a SECONDARY mode. Unlike new guns, unlock cheats, unlock sims. I loved making different matches. 7 Dark Fist Sims was my way of pretending to be, well, basically Left 4 Dead back then. XD (Dang you could get the screen FUZZY if hit a couple times.)

    However, I was turned off of FPS's for a long time because none could live up to that. They had boring weapons, boring enemies, simple war story-lines. Blah.. It wasn't until Borderlands that came with something Ground Breaking and I got into FPS's again. It, luckily, broke my Nostalgia.

    I think it's that we have too high of standards. We loved the games back then, they did everything we wanted. Then we played newer and newer games that kept raising that bar.. And now it's so high, that playing the older games (most of the time) don't measure up anymore. =/ We just have to remember one thing..

    GAMES ARE FOR FUN!!! If you want to put down Mass Effect 2 and Borderlands for some old-fashion Mario or Pacman, then go ahead. Not that you have to go BACK that far, but just saying. I know that for me, I love playing some Indie games once in a while, because I love playing older games. Gives the retro feel.

    Survival Crisis Z is still one of my fav games. =)
     
  12. Risky

    Risky Well-Known Member

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    Good article, certainly it's nostalgia, and in some cases you're lookign back to a game you palyed when you had a lot more time for gaming than now. Cetainly with the neverending debate Elite, Frontier, Freelace and the X-series you're looking back over 25 years (Having played most of these back to Elite on the BBC B, I have no desire to load up anything other than X3TC whether or not the older games were good for their time.
     
  13. Emon

    Emon New Member

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    You had me convinced your argument was at least a little credible until you asserted that Doom 3 was better than Half-Life 2. Is the story all that mattered to you? Because Half-Life 2, while perhaps exactly the same as Half-Life, was at least FUN to play. Doom 3... not so much.
     
  14. Emon

    Emon New Member

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    Also I played System Shock 2 for like the third time after BioShock and still found it to just be more FUN to play, even with retarded stuff like weapon degradation. I've been nostalgic about games and gone back to replay them and been disappointed. SS2 wasn't one of them.

    On the same subject, I replayed Prince of Persia 1 and 2 after playing the new, shittier 3D counterparts and also found them more fun. Because the challenging puzzles were more fun that button mashing, mind-numbingly stupid combat that didn't have the block and parry features of a game from 1991.
     
  15. bpdlr

    bpdlr High-frequency bogon emitter

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    A brave and timely piece Joe.

    It must be an under-explored area of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases">cognitive bias</a> that makes us gamers compare old games favourably with the new. For example, at the time we played Deus Ex, if were offered a copy of Deus Ex 2 we would no doubt have thought it a far superior game. I think the reason we thought IW was crap (at the time) was that we have a tendency to build up game sequels beyond realistic expectations, and then wonder why we are disappointed.

    I started re-playing Neverwinter Nights 2 recently, and inevitably compared it to Dragon Age. I thought NN2's story was more epic - more specifically, I thought it was better structured so that you didn't know quite what to expect next, as opposed to DA:O's plot where, at the start, you are pretty much told exactly what conditions should be met to reach the finale. However, I was amazed at how clunky the controls were, and how much has improved in the mechanics of gaming in the intervening years.

    I sometimes wish developers would re-release old games with updated graphics and controls - then we could really compare the fundamentals - plot, characterisation, immersion.

    Speaking of immersion, maybe there's <a href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2010/02/role-player-study-released.html">another reason</a> why our opinion of older games is rose-tinted - us old RPGers are no longer a significant percentage of the gaming population. New games are geared towards new players, who aren't interested in immersion.

    As much as I loved Mass Effect 2, I had to agree with the games salesman on the Citadel... "I wish they still made roleplaying games like they used to... I miss those old games where you had to remember to drink water, and it took five hours real time to fly somewhere."
     
  16. bpdlr

    bpdlr High-frequency bogon emitter

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  17. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

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    Am I actually the only person in the world who really liked Doom 3? Oh dear.

    I agree with many of the statements though, HL2/D3 was a bad comparison. How is comparing two games released around the same time a comment on nostalgia?

    Either way, the point was not that D3 was better than HL2 (it wasn't), but just that it wasn't as bad as everyone remembers, it only seemed awful when compared to HL2.
     
  18. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

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    I liked Doom 3. :)

    Its atmosphere was great, especially in the opening levels and the presentation in general was really slick but it had major gameplay problems with repetition and I could never really decide whether I liked the flashlight/weapon choice or not.
    I think I only ever finished it once, but I've played it up to the halfway point a few times, at least.

    I'm tempted to load it up again to give it another play.
     
  19. knuck

    knuck Hate your face

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    I bet Joe is reading this thread with a smirk on his face with the satisfaction of a mission accomplished
     
  20. Nickel

    Nickel New Member

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    The funny thing is I started out with Monkey Island 4 and worked my way backwards through the series, so I had nostalgia for the fourth in the series which seems to have spread to the other. But I can understand, I seriously cannot see flaw with them (perhaps the control system of MI4).

    Nice article btw

    Nickel
     
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